Hello, and welcome to The Studio Demands It, an exercise in creative thinking where we will challenge ourselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. We talk movies all the time. In particular, we complain about the choices made in the films we've seen that exist because some soulless corporate hacks cobbled together a collection of boardroom mandated buzzwords and test audience approved action sequences and so called characters. And with more hubris than those shills, we know we could have done better even with the demands and restrictions that clearly must have been placed on the poor bastard stuck in the position of writing these scripts. We will be your screenwriters for this episode.
T.C.:I am T. C. De Witt, and joining me as always is my cohost, Jim, twenty twenty Burzelic. Hello, Jim. Hello.
T.C.:Welcome to twenty twenty.
Jim:Thank you.
T.C.:It's the it's the second season.
Jim:This is the future.
T.C.:It is.
Jim:We're in the future.
T.C.:It was nice that everyone decided to to have 2020 happen for our second season. Yeah. So there's twos everywhere.
Jim:It is. Right?
T.C.:That's, yeah. It's, you know, season two. It's two zero two zero the year. Yeah. There's two of us.
T.C.:There are. If only we're gonna do an episode based on the sequel to a number two. It's all connected. It is. How's your year going?
T.C.:So far? Coffee?
Jim:Yeah. I I picked up a virus when I went to see the wars. Yeah. I I saw the latest Star Wars, and I walked away with a illness.
T.C.:You know, there's there's many who would agree that's exactly how they felt about watching the new Star Wars. I'm not saying I felt that way.
Jim:No. Actually, I really enjoyed that movie, come at me.
T.C.:Come at him, at Tupac Wakson.
Jim:Yeah. I actually thought it was a good ending to the the the series. Right? The the the nine nine episodes. Like, okay.
Jim:This is for for all the choices they made, like, going along, like, this is how it's all gonna Mhmm. End. Oh, okay.
T.C.:I'm We've just lost
Jim:I accept it.
T.C.:We've just lost a bunch of listeners. But, hey. Thanks for
Jim:Well, I'm I'm No. No. No. I'm kidding. I actually feel like I'm being pretty pretty accepting because it's not I didn't love it.
Jim:Mhmm. Mhmm. I accept it.
T.C.:That's you know, and that is that is you've gone through all the steps that everyone is gonna take ten years to get to. Yes. Because for some reason, I think a lot of people have forgotten how much they hated the prequels when they came out. Yeah. The the best thing I saw, I I heard, this girl was 14, and her father dragged her to see Force Awakens.
T.C.:She had never seen Star Wars in her life. She did not care. He was being a good nerd dad and making his kid watch Star Wars, and she loved it. And so she went and saw Last Jedi with him when that came out. She went and saw Rise of Skywalker when that came out recently, and that's her trilogy.
T.C.:Nice. She fell in love with Star Wars with Rey and Finn and Poe and Kylo. Mhmm. And, you know, 15 when she started, so she's 20 now, guess, right? This is her trilogy, and she feels that's the one that all the people who grew up with this Star Wars are going to consider their trilogy, just like all the people who grew up with the prequels don't understand why us old folks are not that we're old, Jim, but us fans of the original, why do you hate the prequels?
T.C.:They're perfectly great. So it's like, what era Star Wars did you come up with? That's the one you had the affinity for. Relax. It's all Star Wars.
Jim:So I recently rewatched the prequels
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:And the originals. Yes. The originals still great. The prequels are not just great on their like like, it's not it's not, oh, which trilogy? That middle trilogy?
Jim:The by middle trilogy, mean the prequels? Prequels.
T.C.:One two three.
Jim:They're they're awful. Oh, they're like like, I see what you're saying with these new ones. Like, some people don't like them because they don't jive with what they remember and love from the the four five and six.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:But, like, when I watched seven, eight, and nine, I enjoyed them, but honestly, I felt like, okay. These were good. These are not for me. Right. This this is this is not my Star Wars.
Jim:This is for someone else. And I'm not gonna get mad about it. I have my Star Wars.
T.C.:You are a better fan than someone.
Jim:I well, I watched those those prequels. Nobody deserves those. And and I walked away with with yeah. Episode one is the worst. It's it's just not good.
Jim:It's bad. It's the worst one.
T.C.:I say episode two is the worst. But
Jim:Episode two Agree to disagree. Is the most boring. It's it's not as it's not as bad as one, but it's it's way more boring. And the third one It's the most boring. Bad and boring.
Jim:It's just not as bad as the first one or as boring as the,
T.C.:like, second one. You you you make a fair point. I have said this before. Don't know if I've said this said it on this show, but when it was just the originals and just the prequels, and we could just collectively the Internet wasn't ready, like, at the point it is now. We could just collectively ignore the Ewok movies and the holiday special that you couldn't find anywhere, and the EU that only the truly devotee Star Wars fans read.
T.C.:If it was just those six movies, and it was just the originals and just the prequels, that's it. It was just those two. Yeah. Now there's a bunch more movies, bunch of TV shows, a bunch of video games. It's it's such a spectrum now that it's it's all Star Wars.
T.C.:Star Wars. Like, it's the the fans who scream and pound the table and are so mad that Mara Jade and Calcutta and Darth Bane and like, I get it. Believe me, get that mad about the Zack Snyder Superman. I get it. But also, come on.
T.C.:It it's okay to like things that people like
Jim:No.
T.C.:And it's okay now. No.
Jim:It's not. Luke Skywalker is supposed to be a Mary Sue. Oh, god. You can't you can't have him not be
T.C.:this term? Who is responsible for that? Max Landis. Damn you, Max Landis, for for making popularizing the term Mary Sue.
Jim:Oh, I I what? I I was using it before Max.
T.C.:I yes. But he
Jim:I'm cooler than Max. You are cooler than me. He used it in regards to Ray. True.
T.C.:But I'm saying
Jim:I'm using it because I've heard friends complain about Luke Skywalker and how they done him wrong in Last Jedi. And I I believe it's because and maybe I'm not being fair about it, but to me, the complaints all sound like it's because they wanted Luke to be the Mary Sue Yeah. The unstoppable, always good guy who saves the day.
T.C.:The expanded universe before Disney was bad. I'm sorry. It had some really great things, but that's a very small percentage of the existence of the EU. I have not indulged in the EU before. I'm just I've read a couple of the books.
T.C.:The Zahn trilogy, of course, is is fantastic. But the majority of the EU that everyone holds on this amazing pedestal, and we're talking 300 plus books and games Oh, yeah. Is objectively bad. It's bad. It's really bad.
T.C.:The last canonical book that came out before Disney bought it.
Jim:Uh-huh.
T.C.:There's a there's a great YouTuber. I'm gonna plug him. He's not my friend. I have no he's not paying me to say so, but Austin McConnell is this great YouTuber. He just does video essays on whatever the hell he wants to.
T.C.:Did a video essay on the last canonical Star Wars EU book that existed before Disney, and it is horseshit. Sorry. Oh. I just Wow. Yeah.
T.C.:It's bad. It's bad. The the the EU was bad before. It had great things.
Jim:Yeah. There were some good stuff in there.
T.C.:Shadows of Empire.
Jim:Honestly, all I think all the things I really like are not considered canon. Yeah. Because well, because they're just by their nature, they're not. Tag and Binks Oh. Are dead?
Jim:Tag and Pink
T.C.:are dead is the is amazing. Bink? Yeah. Just one bink. Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. That is have we talked about it on the show?
Jim:I know we've talked on the show.
T.C.:Tague and Pink are dead. Austin McConnell did a video essay on them too.
Jim:Like Nice. It's it's brilliant. But And then Star Wars had a whole series of their own what ifs. Yes. And, like, those were all phenomenal.
T.C.:Mister Sunday movie, another wonderful YouTuber, did a series called about the what ifs. He did the what if trilogy Mhmm. And and more or less animated it, like animated comic book style. Cool. All three.
T.C.:So you can can you check that out. Why am I plugging all these YouTubers? Listen to us.
Jim:You love some YouTube.
T.C.:I do love some YouTubers. But but the the all encompass we don't have to do a whole Star Wars episode. This actually this actually No.
Jim:Actually, was totally kinda by accident. It was it was No. No. That's that's the thing that led me to sounding like how I sound.
T.C.:It this yes. This but it segues perfectly into what I'd like to discuss for today's episode, which as always, the listeners know what we're gonna do, but you don't.
Jim:I have no idea.
T.C.:So where to begin with our studio? Let's get to the demand for the episode. Our success, Jim, be it as it might be, as either podcasters or screenwriters, has given us a lovely growing collection of demands from our studios literally worldwide. We've had listeners from all over the world send us in demands Excellent. Through studiodemandsit.com.
T.C.:So thank you listeners for giving us an amazing first season.
Jim:Yes. Thank you very much.
T.C.:And joining us again for this second season. And for you new listeners, you can head over to studiodemandsit.com. You can send us a demand for a movie, a TV show, whatever you feel like putting us under the gun for to to craft craft and create on the spot.
Jim:A series of collectible spoons.
T.C.:Yes. Oh, boy. A series of commemorative spoons for the the modern era of vice presidents. That's what we have to conceptualize today. Oh.
Jim:I'll do it by God.
T.C.:Just a just a ladle and a we're not gonna do that. You can send us demands, and you also get to name your studio. We've had this from a couple of listeners, so I'm not gonna credit it to anyone specifically. Okay. The demand we're going to do today is come from multiple sources.
T.C.:And but thank you. Thank you all for your submissions, and we're having a blast, and and we got some fun coming up for season two here because now that we've collected a bunch, we're getting some real good challenges and some real fun ones that I'm excited to throw at.
Jim:I look forward
T.C.:to this season. And for those who might be new to this season, and also to remind our frequent listeners, we come up with all this on the spot. We do our best not to get any preconceived notions. Jim doesn't even know what we're doing today. Not yet.
T.C.:But it segues nicely off sort of what we were just discussing about toxic fan base and whatnot. Uh-oh. So what do we have today? Jim, I want you to travel back in time with me. Want you to remember I to do this with our earlier episodes, where I would take you back in time and specifically give you a demand built off an era.
T.C.:So we have we're we're traveling back in time.
Jim:Going back in time.
T.C.:We're going back to 1989.
Jim:1989. I was 10 years old for most of that year.
T.C.:Well, you are traveling through the way back machine with me Alright. Which is a reference that's much older than both of us.
Jim:Alright. Oh,
T.C.:with me, mister Peabody. No. I'm Peabody. You're Sherman. Shut up.
T.C.:No. 1989. Yeah. A sequel was released to the highest grossing comedy of all time, and it went up against Batman and failed financially, much to the chagrin of Columbia Pictures. And it was the sequel to the supernatural comedy film directed by Ivan Reitman, written by Dan Aykroyd and Harold Ramis, starring Bill Murray, Sigourney Weaver, Rick Moranis, Ernie Hudson, and Annie Potts Ghostbusters.
T.C.:Ghostbusters two came out in 1989 and did terribly. Uh-huh. You're grinning over here. I like Ghostbusters two. Ghostbusters two, as time has gone on, this is much like we were discussing with people softening on the prequels.
T.C.:Over time, Ghostbusters two has found its place. In my previous podcast series, The Rewatchman, I did do an episode on Ghostbusters two and found some new new love and affection for it, but could still point at it and go, there are problems here.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:And it had a lot to do with studio meddling. Because Ramos, Aykroyd, the cast and crew made a much different movie than what we got. The studio demanded that they make changes in post production. They demanded that Slimer have a significant role. They demanded that they sell toys.
T.C.:They made all these demands on Ghostbusters two that ultimately changed the film to the point where Bill Murray says it's not the movie he wanted to make. Ernie Hudson, Harold Ramis said that's not the movie we came up with that we ended up seeing. And it failed financially. It went up against Batman and Lethal Weapon two that year. So it was not a good summer to release it as it was.
Jim:Did that come out in the summer?
T.C.:Yes. It came out in July. Yeah. But Ghostbusters two is is a is a a cool film. It has its its cool stuff to it.
T.C.:It did spawn in, '87 1987. Oh, sorry. Eighty seven to '88 was
Jim:the
T.C.:oh, sorry. I gotta get this right here. Distributed was, the real Ghostbusters cartoon series that went from 1986 to 1991. So it overlapped with Ghostbusters two Yeah. Which is a lot of why they had to make changes to Ghostbusters two because it became a kid's property.
T.C.:Ah. And that was that was problematic of what the adults wanted
Jim:Right. To That's not really, the wheelhouse of those comedians.
T.C.:No. So from from '86 to '91, a 137 episodes of the real Ghostbusters cartoon series came out.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And that's created a new fan base of the property that then went and found the films. Sure. Right? Off of the success of that cartoon series, we got the extreme Ghostbusters, which while trying to craft a Ghostbusters three, they created the extreme Ghostbusters and the Ghostbusters video game, which Ramos and Aykroyd said that's Ghostbusters three, which explored the lore how they wanted it to.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Extreme Ghostbusters
Jim:I never got to play that one. And then Extreme Ghostbusters, I tried watching out of the nostalgia for Mhmm. The cart the previous the real Ghostbusters cartoon. Yes. And it just didn't take.
T.C.:Yeah. It's
Jim:It felt it I'm all for inclusion, but it felt real real checkbox y. Yeah.
T.C.:We have our person of color. We have our handicapped person. Handicapped person. We have our tough chick Yep. With questionable sexuality, and we have slimer.
Jim:Yep.
T.C.:Nothing wrong with any of that, but it did feel and that's why it only lasted one season. Yeah. 13 episodes. Right? Like, it was just a check actually, I think 41 episodes is what it ended up being for yeah.
T.C.:40 episodes. But it did feel like sell toys, hit these demographics. Mhmm. We're not here to expand the lore and challenge our viewers, just sell toys. Yeah.
T.C.:And, again, there's nothing wrong with that cast per se, and it did do what Ramos and Aykroyd wanted, which was pass the torch to a new generation of Ghostbusters. That's what they wanted Ghostbusters three to be. And they never got a chance to make that. So we're still traveling through time here. After eighty nine's failure of Ghostbusters two, multiple scripts for Ghostbusters three were laid out.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Bill Murray was the linchpin to all of it. He never had any problem with Aykroyd or Ramos or any of the or with Ivan Reitman. He's come out and said he's never had a problem or issue with any of them. It's always been with Sony and Columbia. Because they screwed up Ghostbusters two.
T.C.:They would not allow them to do what they wanted to do. They kept meddling. The studio kept meddling. So he refused, constantly refused over and over again. It went through multiple directors.
T.C.:At one point, they were just gonna straight up replace Bill Murray with someone else with Ben Stiller playing Peter Venkman. Oh. Yeah. Not not a new character, but literally Ben Stiller.
Jim:New character, like, it feel like, oh, that sucks. But just just recasting Bill Murray feels
T.C.:gross. Sad. Not not good. Not good. So they know the the creators, so Aykroyd and Ramos, they could never achieve what Columbia wanted, what's what Sony wanted.
T.C.:Bill Murray constantly said no. When Bill Murray Lee Bill Murray finally said yes, Hailed Ramis passed away. Ah. And then they shelved that project. And then fast forward till here we are today in the year where are we?
T.C.:2016.
Jim:Oh, I got all acclimated to do 1989.
T.C.:Now back to 2016. We can we can jump in.
Jim:No. No. That's that's funny.
T.C.:Is when we finally got the Ghostbusters or just Ghostbusters directed by Paul Feig, produced by the original, Ivan Reitman, who did the original one, starring Melissa McCarthy, Kate McKinnon, Kristen Wiig, Leslie Jones, Chris Hemsworth's in there. This is why I said this kind of tied into our toxic fan base of Star Wars because this movie is more known for what people were thinking about it before it came out Mhmm. Than the actual movie itself. Yeah. And have you seen the 2016?
T.C.:I have. Okay. We don't wanna spend all this time reviewing it. It's hey.
Jim:We can No. We yeah. We won't we won't go scene by scene. This isn't isn't gonna be a book report. No.
Jim:No. But I I thought it was fine. Right? Like, I think the only thing that was bad about it was that it was in any way connected to this legacy because you couldn't help think about all the previous Ghostbusters stuff and the nostalgia of it Yeah. When watching it.
Jim:If you had been able to, if you don't know the Ghostbusters and you go to see this, it's a good comedy. It's fine.
T.C.:It's Fine. Yeah.
Jim:It it passes. It's not something that will stand the test of time, especially on its own.
T.C.:Yeah. I think it it'll only ever be known for its controversy. Sort of. Even erasing it from existence with what is coming out this year, which is the Ghostbusters 2020. That's so weird.
T.C.:Yeah. Well, the the Ghostbusters 2016, they advertised it as a sequel in in, you know, thirty years ago. Oh, did, didn't they? The teaser trailer advertised it with and now, you know, this is the new generation. Yeah.
T.C.:And it had zero connection to the original. And let let's make an assumption. What do you think were the demands of the studio that gave us the 2016 film?
Jim:Oh, gosh.
T.C.:Like, I I can make some assumptions here. I think the all female cast was something they were pushing for, and I don't have any problem with
Jim:it. I have a feeling that, like, they got one or two names attached, and then that became the concept, and that was the the the the kind of battle cry
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:To to get it through.
T.C.:And I think that is great. I I honestly think this is an incredible cast. Yeah. The the I I know the very first thing I'm gonna do, but we'll we'll get to that.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:I think the all female cast was was likely the demand of the studio. Uh-huh. It's Sony. Amy Pascal is the head of Sony, and I feel like she she was pushing much like, a lot of lover or hater, I'm a fan because she produced Back to the Future, Kathleen Kennedy, and her edict of like, hey. You know what?
T.C.:Let's get some diversity into the Star Wars universe. Sure. Kevin Feige and the Marvel universe now pushing now that they've pushed out that one guy being like, hey. Diversity is good, people. You know?
T.C.:Let's let's let's get some more demos in here and and not in the extreme Ghostbusters check off boxes list.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:I think the the girl, like the sorry, the girl, that seems very derogatory. I do not mean it that way. See Klipsch The Flockhart's monologue about Supergirl for how I feel about girl as a a moniker. The all female cast of Ghostbusters, I'm all for it. And if that was the demand, we can totally meet that demand because this cast is great.
T.C.:Mhmm. They just didn't have a great movie to work
Jim:I I don't know. I I had a fine time with the movie. I actually think like like, on paper, I I can see how as they were making it, they're like, no. We're doing everything right here. The the villain was a a good concept for a villain.
Jim:Mhmm. They didn't introduce the the the villain strong enough. They they tried playing it up as a mystery Mhmm. For way too long, which undermined that that villain. And because it was sort of a convoluted plot
T.C.:Yep.
Jim:And so you needed to reveal that earlier so that we'd have more investment in that.
T.C.:Oh, surely. I looking at the original for for how they piecemeal, slowly introduce I mean, hell, Dana Barrett as a character introduces our villain very early in the film. Once once we've established here are the Ghostbusters, here's what we're gonna do, the introduction of Zuld and what
Jim:Honestly, the the other thing that it's that that's built into that concept is the Ghostbusters, the the previous movies do do it as well. It's it's not a mystery for them, like, very quickly that they know who who's what's going on. Yeah. It's the rest of the world doesn't believe
T.C.:Right.
Jim:Them. And that's the the the conflict. Mhmm. In this new one, it was what's going on for every like, they they couldn't figure out what it was it was it was too Scooby Doo.
T.C.:Oh, surely. Yes. Absolutely. That's a and even the special effects are very Scooby Doo. Yeah.
T.C.:The original and two to a to an extent breaks down the three act structure so well, where you're like, each act is its own story. The the climax of the film where it's like, here's our 100% our bad guy. Here's here's what we have to do to stop it. Like that the climax of the original Ghostbusters. The second section where we're clearly given here's what the threat's going to be.
T.C.:And the first section, I went in reverse here, of just introducing the characters and what their place is in the world. It's very, very well structured. I having rewatched Ghostbusters rather recently and regularly. The movie that I feel probably drew inspiration from Ghostbusters, conscious or not, is This Is The End, the Seth Rogen Interesting. Evan Goldberg, film.
T.C.:This Is The End has a great three act structure where each act is its own thing and escalates off the one before it.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Ghostbusters doesn't do it to the extent of This Is The End because that that movie is bonkers.
Jim:Yeah. When when you point that out, you can actually chop This Is The End into three separate movies.
T.C.:And the original Ghostbusters, you more or less can as well. Here's the introduction of the characters. Here's the rising threat. Here's the climax of the film. It works great.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:And you're you're right in the 2016 Ghostbusters being this very cobbled together. They introduced things too late.
Jim:I think you said it in a previous conversation off off podcast. Mhmm. They they left it too open to imp like, the whole thing feels that that like, and all of those actors are great improv like, they they do a good job. They come up with a lot of good funny gags.
T.C.:Yes. In Ghostbusters. Yep.
Jim:And yeah. The thing is that where that works in something like Anchorman, this this really kind of pedestrian concept Mhmm. And you're gonna let it go crazy with all of these insane jokes. Yeah. Ghostbusters was already this this heightened con this this hyper concept to then try to fill that with over the top jokes.
Jim:There's What what what ends up happening is is the the the jokes, they land, they're fine, but they're not they're not what's what's the word? Contrasted by the the reality they're in.
T.C.:They don't inform the plot whatsoever. All of the improv in the original Ghostbusters, 1984, original Ghostbusters, it's a lot of riffing if it's a lot of improv, but it's the best kind of improv where it's all informing the characters, informing the plot. It's not just, hey, just riff. And that would be the first thing I would do to to meet the studio's demand. We are not going to give this studio a good movie if Paul Fiege is the director.
T.C.:I think Paul Fiege is a perfectly fine individual. I have nothing against him personally. I think he's a bad director because he does not control his actors. He does not control his set. He's just happy to sit there and let them go to town and make him laugh.
Jim:Help help me out. What other because I don't think I've seen many Paul Fieg movies.
T.C.:So so Paul Fieg has a a Melissa McCarthy library. Yeah. And he so Ghostbusters, he has done.
Jim:And I I know he did Bridesmaids. Yeah. The the And I I hear it's an amazing movie, and I am a failure of a a person for not having seen it yet.
T.C.:Because it takes place in Milwaukee, Jim.
Jim:Oh, really?
T.C.:It is a Milwaukee film.
Jim:Oh, dang it. I do need to see it.
T.C.:So let me let me just break
Jim:Like that concept to me sounds like it lends itself to, being enhanced by improv.
T.C.:Yes. Well, and he has a career where he comes from the Apatow School. He directed Freaks and Geeks episodes. He directed The Office episodes. He did 15 episodes of The Office.
T.C.:He did one episode of Parks and Recreation, Weeds, Mad Men, 30 Rock, Arrested Development. He did a bunch of those. These that style of directing works for television. Does not work for film. I I don't think.
T.C.:And I I he did
Jim:All the ones I can think of aren't aren't necessarily like, I I go back to Anchorman. I think Anchorman, that that first one was a a wonderful work that highlighted improv. Christopher Guest movies are great examples of of improv being good
T.C.:in film. Are in the hands of two super directors for that. That's true. Adam McKay for Anchorman and Christopher Guest for his films.
Jim:To me, the the the the crux and I guess I guess that's not true. We couldn't. Now I wanna do a a whole different Studio Demand where I where we make a sci fi movie that is built off of improv. But I I feel like it's it's easier to to do improv for improv to breathe properly in a a story with a concept, with a premise that is couched in reality. And when
T.C.:you Certainly. Well well When
Jim:you when you build a world that is going to require explanation
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Improv works against that
T.C.:There that's is the best way to state that. That a world that demands explanation Mhmm. Having characters riff does not work. He also directed spy, the heat.
Jim:And those those kinda work. Right? Because, while the spy a spy movie doesn't necessarily or, isn't necessarily realistic and might require explanation Mhmm. It's still a large enough genre. Like, because I'm sure that movie I don't again, haven't seen it, but I'm sure the movie just plays on spy movie tropes
T.C.:Absolutely. Which 100%.
Jim:Audiences are familiar with, so you don't need to explain them. Exactly. Improv. Just go.
T.C.:By the way, Spy, for its fallacies in terms of just letting characters riff, Jason Statham is freaking hilarious in Spy. He is the best part of that movie. The Heat is just a buddy cop movie. Yeah, you don't have to explain it. This is exactly why
Jim:If you were if you were to do like, you could do a paranormal improv movie, but you do a haunted house. So you play on haunted house tropes.
T.C.:What we do in the shadows.
Jim:The foundation the foundational rhythm Mhmm. I'm gonna make music analogy here of of the tropes of the of that genre. You don't need you don't need help for the basic movie. The basic movie is happening in the background, and what's the the the highlight, the melody is is all of this improv.
T.C.:Per perfectly stated once again. And the thing with the improv in Ghostbusters that we got, the fact that Paul Feig just likes to I like to sit back and just let him go. And if I'm laughing, I know we got something good. That's great. But those jokes could be in any movie.
T.C.:Yeah. Those riffs could be in any movie. They don't specifically
Jim:I actually I real I thought it was a really good scene where, Chris Hemsworth is just is their their ditzy secretary.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:And they're just watching him. They're just watching him be this weirdo. Yeah. It's an it's hilarious, but you are right. It could have been in any movie about, well, I was gonna say women starting a business.
Jim:Mhmm. But honestly, it wouldn't even have to be that premise. It it could just be two people observing this really ditzy guy.
T.C.:Yeah. And that that there lies the problem with Paul Paul Fieg as the director for this movie. I'd kick him out of the seat. I don't know who had to replace them off the top of my head, but I I Any of the other people? Any of the ones I've literally just named, Adam McKay
Jim:and Adam a Christopher Guest for Ghostbusters would not turn out like, I would love that, but I think that would be way too niche of a
T.C.:Oh, well, a Christopher Guest style Ghostbusters wouldn't be a visual effects heavy film. It would just be a character driven film about goofball weirdos who it would be much more like what we do in the shadows. But Yeah. So let's let's let's put my my critique aside about Paul Feig. I've made my thoughts clear.
T.C.:Mhmm. If our demand is to have these four, women as our main characters, even having Chris Hemsworth, who is freaking hilarious Mhmm. As the as the secretary. Mhmm. To be fair, Annie Potts is not a ditz.
T.C.:Annie Potts is a from, the original Ghostbusters. No.
Jim:I I don't think she was I don't think it was meant to be a play on that. Okay. Okay. No. In fact, in in the the well, her character changed a bit going into the sequel Mhmm.
Jim:And into the cartoon. But I think initially, it was she's supposed to be a very jaded She's just a Brooklyn no nonsense. Like, I don't care about ghosts.
T.C.:Ghostbusters, what do you want? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's awesome in in in her role in that.
T.C.:Now here's the thing. They got everybody back. Everybody was willing to do Yeah. So knowing that Bill and Dan Bill Murray, Dan Aykroyd, Sigwonia Weaver, Annie Potts, Ernie Hudson were all willing to do cameos. Mhmm.
T.C.:We know we can get them.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Do the handoff. Make this a legit handoff film. Go for it. Do what you wanna do. Thirty years after the fact, dust off the old stuff, do a startup company.
T.C.:They were damned either way by touching this beloved property. But lean into this. Like, the the
Jim:I I do I do agree. I think a handoff, being your your story premise or not necessarily even premise, but having a scene where that happens is the the right way to go about it.
T.C.:And here, we were discussing this before we we started the podcast today in terms of taking four characters who are very clearly their four characters
Jim:Uh-huh.
T.C.:And then assigning them to new to new roles in a film. The film we were discussing was The Incredibles and Fantastic Four. So we're not gonna go on a jag on that, but I don't wanna see Melissa McCarthy and Kristen Wiig playing Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd. I don't wanna see them just playing those characters again.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:But those are your two main characters. As much as as Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd are, the first characters we really meet and go on this adventure with in the first one, and then inserting Harold Ramis and inserting here Ernie Hudson much further into the film. If that's the way to go, if if Kristen Wiig and Melissa McCarthy are your main characters, they have a good idea for them in the twenty sixteen Ghostbusters. They were childhood friends who came up believing in the paranormal. Kristen Wing wanted legitimacy, so she stopped playing around and pursued her master's degree trying to get tenure at her university.
T.C.:Whereas Melissa McCarthy kept dreaming of the fantastical.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And now they are forced back together again in order to to keep their business alive, what what have you. Mhmm. That's different enough from Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd. Like, we're not doing Ray and Peter again.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:I think that's that works. That that having the the premise of the 2,016 Ghostbusters isn't bad. It it does come down to execution of it. Mhmm. And so so so so having those two characters be contentious to each other, having a history to each other, and that's the character story that needs to be resolved in the end, is making amends for Kristen Wiig abandoning her beliefs to be part of the system.
T.C.:She she's the man. She she almost becomes the, Walter Peck in a sense. Like, not not that she needs to be that in the film, but she Sure. She sold out her her beliefs in the paranormal. You you you don't talk about the paranormal like it's real.
T.C.:You study it like it's a fantasy. It is real, and you know it's real. Right? Like, that's Melissa McCarthy yelling at Kristen Wiig. Kristen Wiig has to accept the the inexplicable as reality.
T.C.:Do you see where I'm kinda going with this?
Jim:I see. I don't I don't know. I feel like that's so you're saying that she's she's sort of a doubting Thomas character?
T.C.:In a way.
Jim:The thing is to get to get the the story underway the way it needs to go, you need to overcome that that doubt Early. Real fast.
T.C.:Oh, certainly. That that could
Jim:be your That doesn't feel like a
T.C.:Having her almost okay. This is a weird reference to it, but something like Hook, where you where Peter forgot where he came from. This isn't separated by thirty years. It's just she's she's so chosen to ignore her beliefs in the paranormal and and the proof she's seen in front of her for so long that Melissa McCarthy has to force her back into believing it, that you're you're going from act one to act two. And there is a moment like this in the movie we got where she's like, it's real.
T.C.:It's real. Like, Having that reawakening by witnessing a ghost, witnessing something truly paranormal and awesome to have her be like, Forget my tenure, forget my university studies, ghosts are real and we're going to do this. Getting her from doubting to excited and launch it. Basically, the origin should be the first twenty minutes of the movie.
Jim:Oh, oh, you're saying all of that is in the the intro. I thought you were saying that's the character arc through the whole through
T.C.:the whole movie, and that's
Jim:why that that's where I was, getting tripped up.
T.C.:No. No. No. I I think I did did make it sound that way. I'm saying do that whole arc as your first story of of three beats.
Jim:Sure. Yeah. Okay.
T.C.:Because then the second one would be, now that she believes, let's get the rest of New York City to believe. Similar to what we we had in the first one where it's like, Ghostbusters, are they real? Like, what are they doing out there? Are ghosts real? Well, these we're we're here to believe you.
T.C.:Having your second section be them gaining popularity. Again, we're we're hitting the beats of the first one, but with these
Jim:new I don't know. I feel like the first one. I I see don't you feel like the the the whole second act should actually be them losing credit bill? I I mean Well,
T.C.:this is where actually, this would play nicely into kind of the era we live in, 2016, even being twenty sixteen. And it's the very clear two sided arguments of belief and people are choosing to believe. So as soon as she believes and they're ready to go out there and and start this ghostbusting business all over again, picking up where the old her their old colleagues or the original Ghostbusters went, some some sort of link to the original. And this is where you start bringing in cameos is in the second act of the people who 100% believe this is real. There are ghosts, there are weird things, and these are the people to call.
T.C.:And the people who are like, this is bull. This is all just a scam. We do not believe this. And I'm not saying do a huge social commentary, but play up the the this is a scam. This isn't real.
T.C.:There's no such thing as ghosts. The doubters Sure. Saying, no. This isn't real. So that they can't get enough support from the city, support from people who could pay them well.
T.C.:They're only getting people from the the low income, slummy, the the we can pay you $20 to get rid of this ghost for us situation. Okay. The people who believe them can't afford them, the people they want to believe them who could afford them don't. Like, that's that's your second act of them ghostbusting for pennies for food. Like, oh, please get rid of this this poltergeist.
T.C.:I can pay you in fish. And then then you get a whole second act of scenes with You get a yeah. Room for for riffing, room for improv, room for ridiculous cameos and characters. The most amount of fun can happen in the second here in the second act. First act, second act, that's where you piecemeal in your big villain reveal for the climax where the only way to defeat the big bad in the end is not just to have the support of the people who already love the Ghostbusters and believe in them, but we need everybody's support for us to take off take out the the big bad in the end.
Jim:What if
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:What if the story instead what what we learn so so we have our our first act is meeting a few of the characters, and and and they want to start their own agency or or whatever group, only to have an an antagonist. Not the not the paranormal antagonist. A Walter Peck type character. If not, Walter Peck himself
T.C.:Bring him in.
Jim:Like shows up.
T.C.:No. I did this.
Jim:So thirty years ago. No. I'm I'm shutting you down before you can even get started. These guys tried it then Mhmm. And I shut them down then.
Jim:Basically, you you you build this backstory that the Ghostbusters were disbanded in, like, 1995. Right? Like Yeah. Like, no.
T.C.:Because the five years between Ghostbusters one and Ghostbusters two, people have stopped believing in the Ghostbusters. They're doing kids parties. No one's calling them up. They did they exterminated so well that no one needs them anymore.
Jim:Yeah. And so this guy shows up and and and he's like and he says, this this is all fakery. Mhmm. I'm gonna shut you down if you dare try to do this. And that sets them up to seek out our pariah original Ghostbusters.
T.C.:Oh, this happened before? I don't remember. There was another Ghostbusters team. Mhmm. Like
Jim:Well, they they might actually know about that. Well, maybe
T.C.:maybe one of them would. Yeah. Maybe Melissa McCarthy is the one who's fully invested in this. She's the Dan Aykroyd. Not not Ray.
T.C.:She's Dan Aykroyd.
Jim:Actually, I really like that, especially as going into the second act, Melissa McCarthy is dragging Kristen Wiig to different like like, Kristen Wiig's her she's shut down. Right? She's like, we we're we can't do this. We're the the the establishment won't let us. I wanna be a legitimate scientist.
Jim:I wanna prove this. And our one way of doing it has been shut down. And and so Melissa McCarthy is like, yeah, that sucks. Let's go over here. And she's like, right in in her yeah.
Jim:She goes along, and it turns out Melissa has been hunting down those original Ghostbusters Mhmm. To find out what happened and to get advice. And maybe it maybe it's just one scene. I I I was imagining it would sort of
T.C.:be No.
Jim:I this trail. I think it's trail. It's just one scene. She gets everyone together. And so then it's sort of meeting with them that sort of reinvigorates Kristen Wiig's character to be like, okay.
Jim:Okay. This is important and fine. We're gonna we're gonna maybe circumvent the
T.C.:the regulation. Let's go around the system.
Jim:Yeah. Like like, this needs to be done. And then so so the second act is sort of them building up in secret, slap getting knocked down and then building up. And then where we get into the third act, what happens is our villain actually he doesn't quite win. Mhmm.
Jim:But he gets to I don't know if we'd wanna do the one they did in the movie, but it would be something along the lines of because in in this one, it was he wanted to turn everyone into ghosts Right.
T.C.:Or something like And then incest.
Jim:Yeah. And then be ghost lord. Yeah. It was something like that. Boo.
Jim:No good. It it we can we can make it work. It it would be something along those lines, like, they that the villain that villain, the paranormal villain starts succeeding. Like, that's actually what gets Peck out of the way is Peck gets turned into a ghost or something.
T.C.:Well, what if the what if the yeah. Possessing specific people to then control the city. Take over the mayor. Take over, I don't know, the richest guy in New York City because one day he might be in power. Like possessing Gross.
T.C.:No. No. Think of the makeup. Think of the makeup. Keep your politics off my show.
T.C.:I love where you're going here. Let's take a quick break because we've been going for a bit here. I want to jump right back into your cameo appearances because I think I got a great idea what to do with those specifically. And then Okay. So take a moment to to digest your ideas about where to go with the villain because I think we've we've laid down a structure with our existing material pretty well here.
T.C.:So, we're gonna take a quick break here. Here's a message from our our beautiful six five video. Hi there. I'm David. And I'm Kate.
T.C.:And we're the
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T.C.:Here's my cameo. I wanna jump in not my cameo. My ideas for my cameo.
Jim:Yeah. T. C. In the space.
T.C.:Well, I mean, we're screenwriters for this, so why can't we just sneak ourselves in? But having them busting ghosts scene by scene for that kind of second period, getting your and and hunting down the originals, I think they should be in every other scene capacity here. And Kristen Wiig has has accepted that ghosts are real. This is real. But she she she realizes now because of the system, being legitimate was the way to go.
T.C.:Right? Like, we got her to the point where she's like, oh my gosh. Yes. I totally embrace this, but, I mean, really, the system's shutting me down. I should go back to my job.
T.C.:Like like, Melissa McCarthy almost got her, and that's why she's taken her from meeting Danak meeting Ray, meeting Peter, meeting Dana. Like, maybe Dana and Peter can get ended up together. So you get Sigourney Weaver and Bill Murray in a scene together where the girls talk to him. I think that's great. I would like to posit this as the final tipping point for Kristen Wiig to go, let's do this.
T.C.:I don't care that the system is stopping us. I don't care that the naysayers out there say this is a bad idea, and we probably shouldn't have tried to recapture the glory of thirty years ago, and we're a bunch of ladies and and not capable of doing it. I say nay, a little bit of meta commentary there. Melissa McCarthy's tracked down everyone, including Egon. Mhmm.
T.C.:Not realizing
Jim:can't actually have Egon.
T.C.:Not realizing that Egon passed away. And so when she get when they get to where Egon's supposed to be and find out, oh, he's gone, go and visit his his his grave. Go and visit some memorial to him and have Kristen Wiig just standing there looking at Egon's headstone or whatnot alone, and that's where her self realization comes. May and and how I would like to do this is a very respectful moment to Harold Ramis, a very sweet moment of her monologuing just for a moment. It doesn't need to be this, like, heavy, deep thing, but a sweet moment of, hey.
T.C.:You did it. You you you believed some something to that effect. Because Harold Ramis Egon as a character existed in far more lore lore than anyone. Egon was in extreme Ghostbusters. Egon was they all did the voices for the characters in the games.
Jim:He was he was the screech of Ghostbusters.
T.C.:Sadly, yes. So having her have a one-sided conversation with feeling the spirit, I don't wanna see a ghost egon. I don't wanna hear a ghost egon. But having her speak to his headstone and basically confess some of her character traits and flaws that she's trying to overcome, giving her a strong character and giving a little bit of a wind blow situation where she's like, I feel the spirit and I've decided to do it, and then ending with her running off to find Melissa McCarthy. And there's Melissa McCarthy hidden behind a tree or around the corner with Ray kind of like shaking hands or bumping fists or something that that's poorly constructed off the top of my head, but giving a respectful cameo to Egon as a character that pushes them into the next stage of the story while maybe not saying that his presence was there, but his presence being represented in Dan Aykroyd playing some part in not tricking Kristen Wiig, but basically nudging her to do you see can I see where I went with that?
Jim:I do. I have a different
T.C.:That's fine. That's fine. I'm not saying that it couldn't be a better idea. But No.
Jim:No. Well, your yours is yours is respectful and and nice, and mine is less so. So I I like the idea of maybe maybe in this, Egon is gone.
T.C.:Yes. He is.
Jim:But the way that they visit his character, the the the tribute to him is he has there's a something like Spengler's institute of insistent technology. Insistent technology. I love it. And so he started this place. And and the reason they go there to meet him.
Jim:Turns out he's he's gone.
T.C.:Egon Spangler School of Insistent Technology?
Jim:Yeah. So And that's where they meet Essence.
T.C.:Ray?
Jim:No. No. Oh, Kate McKinnon.
T.C.:Yes. Oh, alright.
Jim:She is she is a student there.
T.C.:Yay. Alright.
Jim:So And and that's that's sort of how and and she's like, what are you guys doing? Oh, sounds like you guys could use blurb to blurb device.
T.C.:She's she is
Jim:And sort of that that's sort of how they they they pull that character because that's the role that that she plays and that is is sort of what Egon was.
T.C.:The tech.
Jim:Yeah. At least that angle of it.
T.C.:That's a great way
Jim:to get her into
T.C.:the movie, which should probably mean this cameo should probably be a lot sooner. But Yeah. Just to get her in. Or get Leslie Jones in the movie sooner.
Jim:All of this all of this should probably happen in the first act, honestly. Oh, wow.
T.C.:Okay. Alright. We'll say the first half hour. First thirty? If it's a ninety minute
Jim:movie. Definitely.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:Be I I so I think what the I think the the beats are we meet the first we we meet the characters. Mhmm. They have they they have to come together and have their paranormal experience, which lights the fire to do this. And then, like, how do we do this? Mhmm.
Jim:That's when they maybe seek out the ones who've done this previously.
T.C.:For first, thinking they can do it without doing that and then getting shut down by Walter Peck.
Jim:So I'm reversing that. Oh, okay. My my proposal is to they do all this ahead of time. They get the go ahead from the the the ones who came before. They learn all this stuff.
T.C.:Egan spent. They went to ESET.
Jim:Mhmm. And and so they they do all that. Consistent. And then That's really good. Thank you.
Jim:Consistent technology. And so just as they do their maybe on their first job, they even catch their first ghost, do something similar to not an homage, not exactly the the hotel Mhmm. Scene, but something like that. Like, they do this thing, this this this crazy messy job, and they get a ghost. Yeah.
Jim:Actually, maybe they yeah. Maybe they like, yeah, they they get a ghost, and then Peck shows up and says, no. Shut you down. Nice there, they have to let the ghost they caught go
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Right there. And and then that's sort of what knocks him to the floor. And now I don't have an act two. I know I took your whole act two and made it act one.
T.C.:That that's fine. Could that ghost be our bad guy? Could it have been some, like, piddly poltergeist that they capture? And then upon release, he's like, Hey now, and then that's the big threat to the rest of the movie. Make it seem like a slimer to start off with, but only to give that villain that was seemingly just a little poltergeist
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:All the more empowerment to go, I was caught once. I'm never gonna get caught again. I'm not saying build him up through his own scenes necessarily. Mhmm. Zul has development through the experience of Dana.
T.C.:So I'm not quite sure yet how to do the big bad, but I do know how we get Leslie Jones in here. She's their cab driver from place. Like when they go to the Egon of Insistent Technology, Egon Spanglish School of Insistent Technology, she's the cab driver, just New York Cabinet up. Yeah. Yo.
T.C.:I like to drive on hit. I've never been out this far before. It's like, oh, so what do you guys do? We do ghosts? Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. Ghosts. And she just gets them from point a to point b so that when they go from wherever they're gonna go to get to the quote unquote hotel moment, she's their driver again like, oh, hey, you guys again. How are doing? Oh, you're gonna go get some ghosts?
T.C.:Okay. Yeah. Right. So that when she sees it, she's just like, Leslie Jones in it. Like, what?
Jim:Actually oh, that would that would actually be good through so she, like, she essentially joins them
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:On that first one. I can I can see the scene when they bust out of the door? They've captured it. Yeah. She's like, it's real.
T.C.:It's real. It's all It's all real.
Jim:And that's when Peck shows up, and he's like, shut it down. And she's like, what are you doing?
T.C.:Are you insane? This this is real. You listen to the words cut. Yeah. This is real.
T.C.:And then she's like, you're gonna be sorry. Like, I I feel like that is because Ernie Hudson was a fireman who was there Sure. Very every man, and he was just there for the job. He he's like, you pay me you help you pay me a a steady paycheck, and I'm here. I'll believe whatever you want.
Jim:I mean, if if we're gonna follow those those same beats, I
T.C.:actually felt Not necessary. Go ahead.
Jim:In in when I when I saw that in the movie, they they did a good job, but I felt like, again maybe again, maybe it's a little checkboxy, but I felt like, oh, yeah. Okay. So their inclusion of the black person again is, oh, that's the that's the the the regular person. A black person can't can't actually have a degree?
T.C.:Well, no. I and I say we don't do that because actually Ernie Hudson in or He was
Jim:supposed he was the the blue collar
T.C.:But addition. In the script, what was not made into the film, he had a master's degree in physics. Like, he actually was a as intelligent as the as the others, and they didn't make it into the final cut of the film. With Leslie Jones being a cab driver, being very blue collar, there's no reason not to say she has a degree in transportation. Like she like no.
T.C.:No. But, like, the going you're laughing in go.
Jim:It it just sounds funny. I'm a cab driver with a degree in transportation.
T.C.:It's That's not the correct degree I was going for in that she understands infrastructure and the the what is it? What the what is who's the city planner? Like, who who lays out the the city plan? Civic engineering? Yeah.
T.C.:There she is. She has a an an engineering degree. Like, she's not she's not just a blue collar schmuck who drives a cab. She's literally more capable of that. And that can be
Jim:That'd be I I demand then Mhmm. That that detail be plot necessary.
T.C.:Yeah. Like, that that they are able to utilize that for the Mhmm. The climax of the film. And I think that's essential for all four. We know the tech is gonna play an effect here.
T.C.:We know that the belief necessarily in the paranormal and the knowledge of the paranormal is gonna play an effect here.
Jim:How about this? Go ahead. Yeah. So the same way in the first movie, they find out the guy who built the building Mhmm. Was act like like, built it for a a paran an occult reason?
T.C.:Demonic demonic purposes. Yeah.
Jim:They're trying to track down the paranormal antagonist, right, or the ghost that's released. And events keep happening, but they can't figure out why or where they're happening.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:And it's her character who's, like, basically looking at a map of of where they're all happening. Like, oh, this is this is what's happening here.
T.C.:It's this and this and this. And if you do this, this and this, and this is the yeah. Totally. That's Yeah. That is
Jim:Because that's the old bridge that that did this thing.
T.C.:A perfect example of that Mhmm. That that knowledge of a seemingly blue collar dude is Die Hard three, the truck driver that knows the president's name that that takes him through the he's explaining the aqueduct to John. That level of knowledge for someone is is is precisely what I think you're getting at, where it's like, yeah. Yeah. I drive a cab, but I know stuff.
T.C.:Like, this is this is what I know. I have a literal degree in in structure in in civic engineering. Like, this is what yeah. To to figure out the
Jim:I like saying my degree is in New York City. New
T.C.:York. Yeah. There you go. You mess with one of us. You mess with all of us.
T.C.:That's not true. You don't mess with I don't care if you mess with her. Oh, New York. Yes. So to that's how I got Leslie Jones in here.
T.C.:I love how you got Kate McKinnon in there. I love so so I think our our our critical thing here now is just the villain in general. Sure. Walter Peck being the antagonist antagonistic to the group is great. I I wonder if that actor would come back to do such a thing.
Jim:Yeah. It it doesn't act well, actually, it wasn't even him in the second one. It was it was a different guy. I can't. Like, at the time, I'd saw him in a bunch of different movies, but I can't place him now.
Jim:Yeah. I'm trying
T.C.:to picture him too. I'm not gonna look him up. There's no way to know.
Jim:So it could be it could be someone different.
T.C.:Well, I think yeah. Yes. But I I like the idea
Jim:of Walter Peck junior.
T.C.:Walter Peck junior. Walter Peck's daughter. Yeah. I love the idea of okay, we I think we've figured out the characters.
Jim:We've we've So the reason here here's another just another detail. Mhmm. After Vigo, basically, the the Vigo's mood ooze Mhmm. When the Ghostbusters defeated it.
T.C.:So there's Ghostbusters two, Vigo the Carpathians Yeah. The the evil painting.
Jim:The the fallout of that was he because he was sort of accumulating and amplifying the supernatural energy of the city Mhmm. When it was defeated by the Ghostbusters, it essentially dampened all the all the supernatural energy in the city, which is what led to a dearth of supernatural activity, a, for the Ghostbusters to deal with. Mhmm. B, all because there's that absence that led to Peck or whoever being able to say, see, it was just a big hoax.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:The whole thing
T.C.:And wiped
Jim:people off. Don't shut down. Yeah. So that all gets set up real in some expository manner. That sounds like a thing Ray would actually explain.
T.C.:Mhmm. Oh, sure. Get Dan Eckert into conspiracy theory for five minutes.
Jim:Yeah. And and dropping all sorts of ghost words.
T.C.:Yeah. Okay. Well, the thing and then the thing and then the thing.
Jim:And then so that's why when our our one new ghost, our our little piddly ghost
T.C.:Mhmm. Who
Jim:gets let go, they're actually going around the city according to this arcane pattern that's been laid out, basically reviving supernatural sites. And and the city is starting to sort of explode in energy again.
T.C.:Yes. Oh, that's great.
Jim:We we yeah. So so that's why they're trying to figure out why this is happening, where are all these ghosts coming from.
T.C.:We are getting great gigs in in but the question is, like, but why are we suddenly getting gigs? Like, why are Oh, well, they they would be
Jim:on top of it, like, like, immediately. They would like that the thing. The thing we released, it was there. It was it was doing a it did a thing, and now there's, like, for a four block radius, there's there's, like, six events.
T.C.:I think maybe at first it would be excitement that there's actually hey, people believe us. Look how many people are calling us. Great. Why are people calling us all of a sudden? Oh, good question.
T.C.:I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. There's sudden for for a thirty year dry spell of paranormal activity, as soon as we decide to do paranormal activity again, it booms? Why did that happen? Oh, oops.
T.C.:Well, that wasn't our fault. It was that Walter Peckfellows fault. Well, yes, yes, I guess we can blame him, but oops. So that is a fun way to get yeah. Like this one ghost is just activating sites around the city of like and then is he basically structuring something to like, there's gonna be a central point, you know, not the hotel again, not Dana's condo, but a central point in the city that the ghost is going to once they've activated all these sites, it's all gonna centralize into one location to the big final payoff of the movie.
T.C.:Yeah. Likely. Okay. So then then there's your there's your your setup for failure and then climax of the film is, okay. We figured out courtesy of all of our abilities that if a, b, c, d all across the city are activated, this centralized location is gonna activate, and that's that's gonna be bad.
T.C.:So we know what to do now. Stop the other sites from being activated, and that's where they fail. Mhmm. And then you reach their low point of we were in we weren't able to stop the centralized thing from happening. Okay.
T.C.:Yeah. We failed. We failed. We we suck. We everyone was right.
T.C.:We shouldn't have done this. This was a bad idea. Okay. Meta meta humor, meta humor, meta humor. But you know what?
T.C.:Screw them for saying we couldn't do it. Even though they think we screwed up, let's now that we know we've messed up and the centralized thing's gonna happen, let's go shut that shit down. Sure. So there's your your your low point of them failing to stop the climate, like, the big thing from happening, and then making the the rallying decision to go stop the big thing that happened. And you get your Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.
T.C.:You get your your Statue Of Liberty taking out Vigo.
Jim:Well, that was gonna be my next question. What it what giant thing happens?
T.C.:Yeah. So
Jim:What what either statue comes to life or what big thing? I the first thing that comes to mind is our main antagonist. One of the reasons he's doing this is because as as the ghost activating all these locations, he is siphoning a whole bunch of power which manifests as getting bigger.
T.C.:Oh, sure. We can you know what? Even going so far as making him something cute to start with. Like, if Slimer wasn't cute, Slimer was Jack Wolf.
Jim:I was actually thinking what what would our slimer be. Mhmm. And not not just have slimer again, but to do a a new a new companion.
T.C.:You know what? I'm get it's 2016. I'm guessing in about three, four years, baby Yoda's gonna be huge. Having having our little little ghost that gets Yeah.
Jim:Our RV eight
T.C.:to connect it
Jim:back to Star Wars.
T.C.:Them become a giant thing that they have to destroy.
Jim:Possibly. That that's one way to go. Or just as a tangential, have a companion ghost of some kind show up.
T.C.:Oh, sure. Sure. To be the cutesy toy. Yeah. Here's a here's a problem that happens in a lot of movies.
T.C.:This is Marvel is guilty of this, and and the Ghostbusters 2016 was very guilty of this. Don't start your action set pieces in CG design before the script is done. Because the climax of of the movie is just, hey. We already have them shooting their weapons and whipping this and doing all these things. It has no content or context to the film itself.
T.C.:It's just this is this is the special effects we already started before we started filming.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Marvel does this as well, where they they already know what their action set pieces are gonna be. And the studio may demand that we get started on the special effects as soon as possible. Mhmm. And fine. But let's let's make these special effects matter.
T.C.:Let's not just have them firing off their technology in a CG boss battle. Let's actually have a have I want this, and I've and whether the studio
Jim:Maybe that's that's what the tiny companion ghost ends up being for, is it ends up being essentially a torture guinea pig for Kate McKinnon Aw. To develop during the whole second act to develop all the different technologies.
T.C.:Oh, that's so sad that she's just torching this little thing.
Jim:Kinda. Yeah.
T.C.:Can we okay. In order to make that
Jim:It can be ugly cute.
T.C.:Right. Let's just for the sake of not making that not vilifying our heroes, let's say the ghost really is into it. No. No. No.
T.C.:No. Try that one on me. Try that one on me. Oh, yeah. That one hurt.
T.C.:That one hurt quite a bit. Put a green check mark on that
Jim:one. Like
T.C.:very and and then you can have some humor about the sadomasochist relationship between, like Ghost and blow the thing up. Yeah. Ghost and buster. Blow it up and and and Kristen Wiig or Leslie Jones being like, oh my god. Oh, no.
T.C.:No. No. It's fine. He likes it. Really?
T.C.:Because you just blew him up. Wait. Wait. Wait for it. Woah.
T.C.:Yeah. I'll do it again. Do it again. So
Jim:it's like a it's like a creepy little thing.
T.C.:Yeah. It's a creepy little gremlin. It's cute, though. It's Babu Frick.
Jim:There you go.
T.C.:So, yeah, having
Jim:How many Rise of Skywalker references are we gonna drop?
T.C.:It's it's it's twenty twenty. Every reference is a Star Wars reference. So oddly enough, the voice of Babu Frick is Moni Myrtle from Harry Potter.
Jim:Really? Yep. It was the
T.C.:the the actress who voiced Moni or who was Moni Myrtle. Excellent. Who care that was not not who cares? No.
Jim:That's nothing to do with Ghostbusters.
T.C.:Our our big final boss battle. It was
Jim:in She was a ghost.
T.C.:It's true. It was in Times Square. So why not Times Square? It's a it's a New York landmark.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And they have to take out our our big bad. Now something that the original Ghostbusters did was this this the the final solution of how they destroy probably you know what? Let's not use that term ever again. Right? That's a bad there's some connotation there I did not mean to imply, and I never would.
T.C.:Their their solution in the end is to just go, well, you know what? This will probably kill us. Let's cross streams. Let's not do the thing we should do. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. This is a great idea. I love this idea.
Jim:Yeah. You're right. That's what was missing from the twenty sixteen one was sort of that that, like, that all out last ditch.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Like, well
T.C.:Instead, it was just like, we're badasses. Let's do this. Did it. Yep. You know, it needs to be a culmination of these characters.
T.C.:They've come together. They've they've already proven the world proven to the world what they're capable of and what they believe in as a real thing. And whether they win or lose, it's a small victory in that. What if Yes.
Jim:We take the plot of the twenty sixteen one and we reverse it?
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:Sort of. At least the way I'm remembering it could be totally wrong. So what if our
T.C.:Whatever you think of will be better than what we got.
Jim:Our bad guy ghost going around activating sites becoming a giant himself. Mhmm. But it's not just through, I got more energy and power. It's literally other ghosts are fusing with it. It's a big Voltron of ghosts.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. Cool design. Cool design.
Jim:And so, like, they they're trying to fight it, and, like, they'll they separate some ghosts here or there, but they immediately get sucked back onto it. Like, we cannot stop this thing. Earlier on, MacKinnon developed some sort of device that says, this this it's it's like a a repellent. Mhmm. Basically, spiritual energy becomes repellent to everything.
Jim:Mhmm. And they're like, well, we and, like, maybe I I don't know. This this again seems terrible. There's probably a way to make it cute and fun. Yeah.
T.C.:Get the bad guys out. Get the bad ideas out.
Jim:Basically, the the the idea is if they use it, anyone who gets hit by the blast, their soul gets knocked out of their body.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:So that's terrible.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:It so it's it's just a little it's a weird device she just came up with because during the whole movie, I imagine the way I'd write it is she's coming up with all kinds of devices that aren't necessarily useful for what they're doing.
T.C.:Mhmm. Almost arbitrarily created, like like, a Rick device from Rick and Morty where it's like
Jim:It's insistent technology. I had to build it. Yeah. I built this because I thought of it. Yeah.
Jim:It it just it had to be there. And and so, like so it's not just weaponry to take out ghosts. It's not just cages for ghosts. It's like, oh, this one turns turns ghosts in into like like, this one makes them glow. Well, why would we wanna do that?
Jim:Well, you can see them then.
T.C.:You can see them
Jim:in the dark. I oh, okay.
T.C.:Just imagine for some reason, just imagine a toaster that, like, shot toast up and then butter just like, bam. And that's like, well, I guess that's kinda useful. Do not eat that. Yeah. Do why?
T.C.:Just trust me. Okay.
Jim:Ghost butter is not edible. Ghost butter. But it was right like that. So so we just we get all of these we get all these different devices, and I imagine this is one of them that's kind of just in the back in in a a whole bunch.
T.C.:Yeah. Just It's that It's it's it's stated earlier. Yeah. Much like in the first one where it's like, oh, yeah. By the way
Jim:Never crossed the streets.
T.C.:Crossed the streets. Why? Be bad. It'd be bad.
Jim:Okay. And and that that's what this device is. It's a oh, this is this is a doomsday device, essentially. And they get to that end, and the ghost is getting bigger, and the ghost is possessing people through its ghost sucking power.
T.C.:Let's use the thing.
Jim:And it's like, yeah. Cage There's What'll happen to us? Didn't you say
T.C.:that would be a bad thing to use? Wouldn't that do exactly what our ghost friend is trying to do in collecting souls?
Jim:No. It would separate them. Oh. So the big thing would go away. What would happen to us?
Jim:We would go away. Yeah. Well, we have to do it. Yeah. I I don't know how I don't know what the McGuffin is that they end up being okay and they save the day.
Jim:Yeah. I'm just murdering everyone at this point with a ghost bomb.
T.C.:Ghostbomb.
Jim:But that's where I'm at. Okay.
T.C.:No. That you've you've But
Jim:that way, I've planted the seed earlier.
T.C.:Yep.
Jim:And I've created the the the thing that they must not do that they are then and and it's a crazy situation that they're driven to.
T.C.:We've tried everything. We've tried we even went so far as trying the original proton packs. Like, we tried everything. Nothing works. We've gone through what do we have left?
T.C.:Well, I have my soul bomb.
Jim:Oh, yeah. Oh, dang it. The the glowing the glowing device, they they actually they're throwing everything they have at this thing.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. So there's actually a point where they throw the glowing thing, and so that's why the giant thing becomes visible by all of New York, and that's when everyone's panicking.
T.C.:Hey. You're right. Everyone can see it now. So what do we do? Well, all we got left is the soul bomb.
T.C.:Yeah. Just for a reminder, you said that the soul bomb was a bad thing. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:But it's all we have left. So so what do we do? Okay. So we have to it it would if they send it off in the middle of our ghostly friend, it basically separates all the ghosts into now we have a 100. Uh-huh.
T.C.:They're not one giant Voltron anymore. They're broken into a 100. And so now they have to take out
Jim:But their souls are all they they are now also ghosts. They are knocked out of their own bodies. Mhmm.
T.C.:Can oh, okay. Let's throw some bad ideas out there. Yep. Can Egon's ghost help? Nope.
T.C.:Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to put it out there as an option. We do not see Harold Ramos in this movie. Got you.
T.C.:Do the original guys come and play
Jim:a So to utilize some some actual paranormal stuff, One idea is earlier on, we'd also have to explore this notion. The idea of Oh, I got some an astral an astral projection Yes.
T.C.:There's a
Jim:thing called the silver cord Mhmm. Which is essentially a a it's the spiritual connection between your spirit as you explore the astral plane and your body.
T.C.:Utilized in the first season of Sabrina. Continue.
Jim:And so there's all sorts of things in the now I'm just tangenting on weird paranormal knowledge.
T.C.:You're the Dan Aykroyd in this.
Jim:Yes. There's things in the paranormal or in the astral plane that will try to trick you into severing the the silver cord. Mhmm. Don't ever do that. If you end if you find yourself in the astral plane
T.C.:This is this is a PSA from Jim twenty twenty Burzelic.
Jim:Do not let someone trick ghost. It's pretty bad. Boo.
T.C.:I got it. I got it.
Jim:I I I just wanna finish. So the the idea is we learn about the silver cord. We we learn that it connects them to their bodies. And so somehow, we then convolute the idea that the bomb goes off. They get their souls do get blown out of their bodies.
Jim:So we see them fall dead and their ghost looking down on their own own bodies saying, oh, we're dead now. But somehow, someway, the the the cord is still intact, so they're able to get into their bodies and
T.C.:Gotcha. Dude, I got we're gonna go off this. That's that's perfect for Okay. To go with this. The soul bomb Mhmm.
T.C.:Is gonna go off. They've used all the technology that Kate McKinnon has developed. Mhmm. The last thing they have is the soul bomb and the original proton packs. Nice.
T.C.:We're gonna set off the soul bomb and use the original proton packs to take out the 100 ghosts. So we have traps. We have the old school traps and the old school backpacks, the proton packs, to take out the 100 ghosts. But in order to separate the 100 ghosts, we have to set off the soul bomb. Mhmm.
T.C.:Kristen Witt is gonna voluntarily do it. Okay. And Melissa McCarthy is going to we have established the silver cord. Was it the Yeah. That she's the one who's gonna pull Kristen Witt back from the brink.
T.C.:So she's gonna set the bomb off, and now we have two things happening at once. We have the 100 ghosts separated. We have Kate McKinnon, Leslie Jones, Dan Aykroyd, Ernie Hudson show up and take out the 100 ghosts with the original proton packs. Okay? Uh-huh.
T.C.:While we intercut to the astral plane where it's super quiet and it's just the original ghosts that they got rid of and Kristen Wiig having a conversation.
Jim:The okay. Almost like a like a reverse Harry Potter? Yes.
T.C.:So while while the the action is going on in New York, of course, if you don't like Dan McGrid and Ernie Hudson showing up, that's fine.
Jim:That like, that I I'm I'm not a fan of that because I like the idea of passing a torch Yeah. But you need you can't come back and get a bond of
T.C.:the torch. That's fine. But using the original proton packs and the traps in order to take out the 100 ghosts
Jim:Uh-huh.
T.C.:While Kristen Witt is in the astral plane talking to the big bad.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:I don't know where to go from there, but, essentially, why are you doing this? What's your plan here? Make them sound sweet. Try to trick her to cut the cord and realizing, oh, no, you're just straight up evil. You need to stay here.
T.C.:And then Melissa McCarthy's saving Kristen Wiig last second by pulling her back into her body. Throwing it out there. Throwing it out there. It's all spaghetti against the wall. I don't hate it.
Jim:I don't don't immediately love it. Okay. I could love it, but I I I definitely don't hate it. It doesn't it's not quite there for me yet. Could the
T.C.:okay. So for for
Jim:if so okay. So if the bomb is supposed to go off
T.C.:Kristen Wiig sets off herself and gets her blown out of her body.
Jim:We could also just load her up with more device MacGuffins. Well, like, a a bat you know what a bath o sphere is?
T.C.:I don't, but I can Google
Jim:it. It's a I believe it's it's the the deep deep sea suit that people wear. The the the big tank on their head and Yeah. That that thing. Yeah.
Jim:I I think it's called the bath o sphere. Mhmm. Basically, Kate Kate McKinnon comes up with a device that's like that that contains a spear like like, no nothing to get it.
T.C.:Similar to the idea is Hellboy two. There's the spirit within it's Seth MacFarlane's character from Hellboy two. He's in
Jim:Oh, okay. Yeah. That trivia is unnecessary. Actually, curiously, that character's backstory is that they were astrally projecting when their physical body died.
T.C.:Hey. So they were disconnected
Jim:and they had the suit was made to contain their spirit. So so so the idea being she made one of these Mhmm. But they only have one.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:So when the bomb goes off, one of them has to be in there. So then they will be, quote, alive because they'll be unaffected by any of the the spiritual things happening. Mhmm. So then they're the ones who then have to, I don't know, use other devices to revive
T.C.:The other three? Yeah. Okay.
Jim:That's it. And or anyone else in the area.
T.C.:That's definitely a different way of going about it.
Jim:And the only reason I I suggest that, that one, it requires explanation as well for each of those things, but all of that remains I feel like explaining devices explaining more devices doesn't stretch the suspension of disbelief further Mhmm. Where now we have to explain this other realm. And then we're gonna have to do a dialogue, like like that dialogue of of
T.C.:Like, the if in my scenario where it's Kristen Wiig talking to our big bad in the astral plane while the the the explosive climax is happening outside. Yeah. I could see why that how that might be that might not work in this type of film. That might be a little too heady for what should be a fun blockbuster summer film. So then so let's let's let's let's pair it back.
T.C.:Let's pair
Jim:it back.
T.C.:I think the spirit bomb work or the soul bomb works. Yeah. I think the the risk of the the sacrifice moment of, like, I'll set it off and having a contrivance of why she didn't her soul didn't get blown into the blown apart with everything else so that they can all
Jim:Well, when when I say blown apart, I don't mean that, like, individual spirits are disassembled. And I mean, because because the big big bad is literally a magneted together 100 ghosts
T.C.:Right.
Jim:They are now separated from each other.
T.C.:Right. I'm on the same page with you. That's why they need the proton packs and traps to take out. It's like, okay. We don't we don't have one giant one now.
T.C.:We have a 100 normal sized ones.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Like, that's your big Yeah. Climactic battle. But Kristen Wiig setting off the bomb, why doesn't she get thrust into the astral plane? Something set up early that Melissa McCarthy saves her with, I think, is the simplest solution. So that it's if it's just two like, a minute or two minutes or less of so you're gonna make the sacrifice.
T.C.:And then Kristen would open your eyes and going, hey. My soul didn't get thrown on my body. What happened? Hey. Here's the McGuffin we set up when the first act.
T.C.:I saved you. Let's kick some ass. Maybe? Okay.
Jim:So The MacGuffin, another device. It's a it's a glove that lets you touch ghosts. The Like, it's like the first one that they do.
T.C.:Very first thing that they have.
Jim:Why do you wanna like like, they're like, ew. Ew. Ew. Ew. Ew.
Jim:Never. Never. So if she And then in the end, it's Kristen Wigg's soul is is going off with and the the the bad guy is also there. So, like
T.C.:Melissa McCarthy's hand comes up and grabs Kristen Wigg.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:That's great. And then shoves her back into her her spirit, back in her body.
Jim:And then
T.C.:So then And you said this thing wouldn't work.
Jim:And then instead of there being one bath of sphere suit, there's she four were made. Yeah. But what they find out in during the climax is Kristen Wiigs is busted. Right? It's it's it's broken.
Jim:So they know, like, she's like, oh, I'm gonna attack I'll be the one to do this. They're like, no. You can't do that. You'll die. No.
Jim:I'm gonna do it.
T.C.:And he's in the
Jim:midst of these. He needs
T.C.:as many always
Jim:needs sacrifices her time.
T.C.:Don't you spot me. Yeah. Then Melissa McCarthy just grabs her and slams her back into her body. Yeah. Physical comic moments.
T.C.:Yeah. I usually, woah. That was really great. You said this glove was dumb. Let's kick some ass.
T.C.:And then and then and then the big bad ghost is watching all his, the 100 or so collected spirits get zapped into traps. He's like or the ghost is like, no. No. Ow. What are you doing?
T.C.:So it's just the last ghost versus the four of them. They're all standing there looking badass, and he's he's like, Curse you ghostbusters. Yeah. And then trap his ass, and then they've saved the day, middle of Times Square. Everyone comes out of the nooks and crannies to go, Yeah.
T.C.:And there's your then you have all denouement falling actions who have their the the Ghostbusters No.
Jim:The regulation is is the mayor gets rid of the regulation because clearly ghosts are real.
T.C.:The the the fire station is re because it was destroyed at some point in the movie. It's cleaned up. They have a new sign. Chris Hemsworth is like, Ghostbusters, thank you for calling. He's Australian.
T.C.:Yeah. And then that was a terrible impression. And then they hop in the Ecto one and meeer meeer.
Jim:Closing credits. I yes. The Ecto chopper. If it has to be there, fine. Mhmm.
Jim:If I if I would have my say so, and I know this goes against what a lot of people want out of nostalgia. No firehouse, no ECTO one.
T.C.:Okay. Well, their base of operations and getting the call for
Jim:them to see Call them something different, T.C. That's what's important here.
T.C.:Same but different.
Jim:Yes. Yeah. They they would have a base of operations, and they would have a vehicle.
T.C.:And then you you launch them into a new they get a call. They answer the call. Mhmm. Name of the movie that they ended up subtitling it. And then as they run off with one final cheeky catchphrase, we get the closing credits.
T.C.:Yeah. No post credit scene. I don't want the No.
Jim:I'll do a post credit scene. It just won't necessarily be a stinger for what the next movie might be slash reference to a ghost from a previous Ghostbuster.
T.C.:Okay. It could just be
Jim:You you know what? Honestly, a bunch of interstitials of more jobs of of things they do. Of commercials. Right? Like, the commercial was one of the funnest parts of the original.
T.C.:We're ready to believe you.
Jim:And we and that's not anywhere in in this new one. So instead, we put it in the in the the credits. Like, they have two or three different
T.C.:Just
Jim:TV spots.
T.C.:Like, a post credit stuff of, like, four or five. We're going Guardians of Galaxy two here. Mhmm. Do you know which movie people people hated on this movie, but I thought it was perfectly fine. Which had four post credit sequences that offered up the cameos for the original cast was a team.
T.C.:I didn't get to see it. It was the Joe Carnahan, a team. It is just a dumb popcorn action summer movie. It's it's dumb fun. Uh-huh.
T.C.:But the closing credits is the the movie ends, a little bit of credits, cut to a little thirty second moment of there's Murdoch looking at the new Murdoch going, he's crazy. And then a little bit more, and then it's Bradley Cooper with Dirk. It's Faceman. And their little cameo. So, yeah, having having little closing credits, riffs.
T.C.:If not the riffs, then the blooper reel because I love blooper reels and movies.
Jim:Did
T.C.:we craft a film that meets what we can assume were the demands of Sony? It's honestly, I don't
Jim:Honestly, I'm not sure Sony had that many demands.
T.C.:That's exactly what was just gonna say. Yeah. I it was just
Jim:I I like, as we discussed at the beginning, I think it was they they were sold on the concept of an all female Ghostbusters, especially when they probably heard the cast. And we probably got the cast that was initially pitched to, like, Melissa McCarthy, Kristen Wiig, Kate McKinnon
T.C.:Leslie Jones.
Jim:Jones Ghostbusters. Yeah. Yes, please. Who now who else can we add into this? Cameos and Chris Hemsworth.
Jim:Yeah. Because honestly, everything One of the other things I would one of the things I felt they did wrong, it wasn't wrong because they were all funny gags. Mhmm. The problem, I think, that that made this less fun less charming than the original was. In the original, it was really just the Ghostbusters who were the ones who were who were funny, who were cracking jokes, who were the weirdos in the world.
Jim:Right. Everyone else was normal. This was a normal world. In the twenty sixteen Ghostbusters, everyone was funny.
T.C.:Everyone was
Jim:funny. I laughed at the jokes. Mhmm.
T.C.:I did not. We're on a different page here,
Jim:but continue. I laughed at the jokes, but I I feel I feel like that watered down the specialness of our characters in the story
T.C.:100%.
Jim:And so that is a thing I would do in this as well is I would keep as many of the jokes for the Ghostbusters themselves
T.C.:Absolutely.
Jim:Rather than letting the mayor be funny. The because the mayor was funny.
T.C.:Yeah. Or the yeah. The professor giving Kristen Wiig the finger and every variation. Yeah. And yeah.
T.C.:Absolutely. The only other like, the of the four Ghostbusters, Ernie Hudson doesn't have, like, hilarious amount of jokes. He does have the if someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes. Like, that's a great line. And, Annie Potts is
Jim:He has more jokes than the second one.
T.C.:Oh, yeah. They all do. Yeah. But, we also have Rick Moranis as a hilarious secondary character in the original Ghostbusters as Louis Tully. But you're right.
T.C.:A big mistake of the two thousand sixteen one that we did get was everyone's gotta tell jokes. The library sequence of the original is told with no dialogue. We just see the the librarian go through things. She's scared by the ghost. Right?
Jim:When I was a little kid, that first ghost was scary. Oh, that's Like like, I was, like, six Yeah. I think when that came I don't probably not. I've I've I've given my age in a certain year so everyone can actually figure out how old I was, and I'll probably be too old to be this frightened. But, yeah, I I remember having to, like, close my eyes.
T.C.:It's scary. Yeah. And in the new one, we get, like, five minutes of of it's a tall skinny dude from office and Silicon Valley just bullshitting for five minutes to get us to our first ghost scare. It's stupid. It's it's dumb.
T.C.:It's so It was fine.
Jim:It would like I said, without the rest of the Ghostbusters continuum Mhmm. It's it's fine. It's
T.C.:But it's a perfect example of that could have been anywhere. Mhmm. That joke the original Ghostbusters jokes work in the context of the Ghostbusters film, the 2016. So many of the jokes could be anywhere in anything spoken by anyone. Mhmm.
T.C.:And and so the the critical failure of the 2016 comes down to the script and specifically the direction. A tighter script with a more coherent plot, a more clear vision of what the story is going to be, and a director who can rein in the comedy. Like, there's a lot to be said about I highly recommend if you are a devout fan of Ghostbusters or if you're a real fan of cinema, listen to the director commentary track to the original Ghostbusters. It's Ivan Reitman, it's Harold Ramis, and it's one of the other producers whose name escapes me right now, and they constantly talk about Bill Murray. And you can tell two things.
T.C.:They 100% love and respect the comedic genius of Bill Murray, and they were 100% frustrated every step of the way of letting him do what he wants to do. That he would deliver the lines how he wanted to deliver them. He wouldn't do another take if he thought he got it. And as frustrating as that would be, they'd look at the dailies and go, damn if he wasn't right. And that is a credit to the director for letting him do that while still maintaining control of the film.
T.C.:And that's, I think, the major flaw of the 2016 and what would need to be very specifically critical to making this succeed is is the right director controlling this cast and and sticking to the script as much as possible.
Jim:I I don't I I mostly agree.
T.C.:We can I'm please disagree with me because you I'm happy to to be wrong.
Jim:Well, the thing is I think it's important, almost like almost the the way I understand Christopher Guest to direct not scriptless.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:But I I feel like with this cast of care cast of actors, they're all good at doing improv moments.
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:So I would actually want to sort of build the the the sections where they're gonna be able to do that.
T.C.:And I I'm okay with it, but the the difference between letting someone riff and letting some someone add to a film is letting them riff in character. Let create content
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:That is specific to the characters, specific to the movie, and not just doing a riff of, you know how I know you're gay? You know how I know you're gay? Yeah. Like, I know I'm I know I'm insulting Judd Apatow's style of directing, but a lot of his movies are too much of that. It's like that does not lend to the story.
T.C.:That does not lend to these characters. It's just, Isn't this funny? Yeah. It'd be great on YouTube. It's relatable character building.
T.C.:I know, but I don't that's a that's a rant for a different day. It is. This is the no. No. No.
T.C.:No. You I'm taking the quarter out, Jim. I'm throwing it at you. How dare you? I think this though this was a lot of I I don't know.
T.C.:Did did did we achieve this this again, multiple we had at least four requests for us to do a Ghostbusters episode.
Jim:Were there did they
T.C.:have demands? Not having them in front of me. It was maintain the cast. It was from two people. We had to keep the cast that we had.
Jim:Yeah. I I liked that cast. I I totally keep it.
T.C.:Again, I will I said it already as well. I love that cast. They're all
Jim:very If you want me to incorporate more, I would take Jared. That was his name in Silicon Valley. And, actually, what I would do is I'd make him I'd I'd make him their their lawyer who the whole time is trying to work around this the the the regulations. And and, like, they're constantly violating different things and getting in trouble. So he's having to do their paperwork, and he's just very overwhelmed.
T.C.:In a in a montage sequence, you see his paperwork just stacking up every time he And comes back to him, he's then it just falls over on him and he's like, help, help me. I'm under all this paper.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. Ladies?
T.C.:Oh, certainly. Yeah. Having having
Jim:Or like
T.C.:like It's Gabe from The Office if if you aren't familiar with Silicon Valley.
Jim:And, like like, have a scene where he, because he's the lawyer, he asks Chris Hemsworth to to make some photocopies of of these. Mhmm. And so then we get a scene improv of them, like, them interacting terrible like like, it does not go right. And then we get to see Chris Hemsworth fail at making copies, and that would be hilarious.
T.C.:Oh, Chris. I do like the Mike Cat joke that he has a dog named Mike Cat. That's in where he's like, can I bring my cat to to work? Oh, Mike Cat. It's like, yeah.
T.C.:You can bring your cat to work. No. No. No. It's my dog.
T.C.:His name is Mike Cat.
Jim:I like the joke that his glasses don't have lenses in them.
T.C.:There's there's so many pieces that should have worked in this film, and it was such a just a it was a movie. It was it was an epitome of that was a movie. Yeah. And I'm not saying
Jim:it needs to It's a c plus, I'd say.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. I I think you like it a bit more than I do.
Jim:Yeah. I think so. I'm getting that feeling.
T.C.:That's fine. That's fine. You're wrong. I'm right. That's fine.
T.C.:I think if we learned anything from our Star Wars conversation, it's you you can't be right.
Jim:Now It's true. So I'm way too accepting of of things apparently.
T.C.:After this episode airs, after we've released this into the world and and you listeners have had a chance to hear what we would do with a Ghostbusters three, what we would have done in 2016, I'm certainly curious to see to to hear what some of you who may have demanded
Jim:of this mad at us.
T.C.:How wrong were we? How right were we? I'm also interested because much like our Terminator episode, where
Jim:we
T.C.:got a Terminator not soon after recording our episode, in July of this year twenty twenty, we will get a new Ghostbusters movie. I believe it is not going to acknowledge whatsoever the twenty sixteen one. So essentially, we will be getting our Ghostbusters three. I don't see any indication that it's going to be much of anything of what we've just concocted in our head.
Jim:I and in fact, I don't think I've even watched the teaser trailer that was released. Mhmm. But I've I've heard reactions, and everyone's like, it's stranger things meets Ghostbusters.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. When when there's something stranger things in the neighborhood, who are you gonna call?
Jim:Dustin. Finn Wolfhard. Oh. So,
T.C.:yeah, I I'm I'm so so there it is. I I do you have any final thoughts on the crafting of a Ghostbusters 2016? Essentially, Ghostbusters reboot, Ghostbusters three.
Jim:Honest honestly, my my thought is it's not that hard.
T.C.:It shouldn't have been that hard, people. No.
Jim:It I really don't think it's it's that hard to to make something that yeah. I I do think
T.C.:this is almost the epitome of what this podcast stands for to begin with. The studio demanded that this existed. What were the writers thinking? What what we don't know. We don't know what was forced upon.
T.C.:We can read the Wikipedia that explains the history of the crafting of all of what Ghostbusters three was supposed I to
Jim:have theories. I I think it's the people who were put in charge of it. They liked the original, but they're not they're not fans. Right? Like, they're they're not geeky Uber fans of
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Stuff like this.
T.C.:And that's And it's Yes.
Jim:And and so for them, doing something like maintaining a continuity of a world, a canon, isn't important. If anything, it's actually more important for them to deviate from it to create their own unique thing. And I think that was more of their mantra when doing this than not. Like, we we wanna make something that isn't leaning on that. We wanna show that it's not it's not just Ghostbusters with women
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:And we're relying on everything that came before. It's no. We wanna show that it's its own thing that can stand on its own. And like we've said, it's fine, and it can. It's just not what people people wanted more of the thing they saw before.
T.C.:It it when it comes down to a fan fandom, this goes back to our Star Wars conversation that kicked this off. I think this goes to why people hated the Ghostbusters before they even saw it, this most recent one. I think this goes to a lot of fan bases, is if if the fans don't feel respected, there's going to be a backlash. They don't necessarily have to like what they get, but they I feel that the the hardest core of fans need to feel like the material respects the the original material.
Jim:Maybe I'm just thinking of an anecdotal exception. I don't know if I fully agree with that.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:I think this this had certain things going like, honestly, a lot of that, the fan betrayal, I think there was too much misogyny in there. An example and maybe the maybe the fans of this other franchise aren't as rabid, but I feel like transformers is an example where the people who made Michael Bay made that were didn't care about the fans.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Didn't care about pleasing them Yeah. And just made what they wanted to make, and there were no repercussions for that.
T.C.:He made Billions of dollars.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. Actually, another one is another one we complain about all the time, and that's the Zach Snyder DC stuff. Mhmm. He he make he made what he wanted to make.
T.C.:Well, I I say, okay. I agree. You are perfectly set stated with Transformers and the Zach Snyder version. You are you are correct. I don't I they made what they wanted to make, and it and it succeeded on a level financially that the studio is more or less happy with.
T.C.:Mhmm. I think, though, had they respected the material early Mhmm. It would have been more of a success.
Jim:Yes. I definitely agree with that.
T.C.:You can you can have a success in something like the transformers, which makes billions of dollars. They they went so far as to bring Optimus Prime's voice actor back to appease some fans. I think that helped a lot. If if you went that extra mile as a creator, not you specifically, but the the royal you of filmmakers, studios, directors, if you go that extra mile to respect the material, you can do if Simon Pegg had written the first J. J.
T.C.:Abrams, Star Trek
Jim:Uh-huh.
T.C.:Because Star Trek Beyond is the best of the three we got.
Jim:You know, I recently have been hearing hate on that movie.
T.C.:The third one? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I I whatever.
Jim:People were saying that it's it's too much of just a Star Trek episode.
T.C.:Yeah. I I guess that's an agree to disagree situation right there, but I I I stand by. You can have a success by just doing what you wanna do. Zach Snyder has proven that by creating a very loyal assholery of a fan base. Uh-huh.
T.C.:Sorry. Me, please. I think if if you go that extra mile to respect the material, you can get something like Wonder Woman. Sure. You can get something like what Suicide Squad two is gonna be.
T.C.:You can get Guardians of the Galaxy if you go the extra mile.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:I mean, all of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Yeah. So taking something like Ghostbusters and just pumping out, now we're gonna do our own thing, they might've how did they screw that up? There there was things we're not considering and and why it failed. Had they gone the extra mile, they could have had the success they wanted.
T.C.:It failed financially. It failed critically.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:It it didn't do any better than Ghostbusters two, which also in 1989 was a result of studio meddling.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:This is a much bigger conversation to just franchises as whole in a lot of what our conversations are off mic that led to the existence of this show of like, how did they screw this up? If they had just done ABC, they would have done amazing. Yeah. We know what we're talking about, and it and it does come down to what did the studio demand. And we can only make those assumptions.
Jim:And well, I think coming back to Ghostbusters
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:I think this is a curious example because I I think it it wasn't the studio nobody knew like like, it was that lack of demand, honestly, I think, that that led to what we got.
T.C.:Had they had more demands of of paw fig.
Jim:Possibly. Yeah. Although, of course, as the rest of the podcast discusses, they wouldn't have demanded the right things, and we would be making just another variation of this episode. Well,
T.C.:I I feel like the failure of the 2016 put put some new ideas into Sony's head, knowing that they have a franchise that they they need a success with. Yeah. That's why we're gonna get the Ghostbusters we're gonna get this year. Sure. And and I and the fact that, Ivan Wittmann's son is directing it.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:The new one. There's there's going to just, hey, you know what? We we messed up by not leaning into the nostalgia. Go to town on the nostalgia. Yeah.
T.C.:Even to the point where there's books stacked in the background of one of the shots in the new one, and it's like, why is that there? Because the the books were stacked because of a you know what, Donut? Donut's fine. You you remember the thing. We remember the thing.
T.C.:Fungus. Look. There's fungus. Yep. Egon collected fungus.
Jim:Fungus and molds.
T.C.:So I I don't know. Maybe it might lean too far into the nostalgia. It might it were you and I to have written the 2016 based on the the story we just came up with
Jim:Uh-huh.
T.C.:There very well may have been too much nostalgia. I don't know. It's it's hard to to to predict that because we're we're traveling through time and space to create this script. And a lot of our ideas came
Jim:You know what? I'm I'm actually gonna say no. We would not have done too much nostalgia because half the though the reason you return to a that that that's actually another reason that that 2016 was a a failure, was the reason you return to a franchise is to look back on that, is to to rekindle something. Otherwise Some of
T.C.:the member berries.
Jim:Otherwise, you do a new thing.
Commercial:Member this?
Jim:Remember this?
T.C.:Yes. I love member berries. And
Jim:and so so you lean into it. That doesn't mean you necessarily like, there are definitely ways to pander badly. Mhmm. But for myself, when I see things like that, I love I love the the the little nods to the the the newest one. Going, again, back to rise of Skywalker, someone did a just a quick little breakdown of all of the Han Soloisms that Ren does.
T.C.:Yes. That you see
Jim:Ben pulling in. Honestly, I saw I picked up none of them. Maybe I'm not a big enough Star Wars fan. But when they were shown to me side by side, that's amazing. That's wonderful.
Jim:I love little things like that. I love Easter eggs like that. So I don't now all that said, what's what's super pandery? What would be going too far? Like Having slimer, honestly.
Jim:Yes. That would be going too far.
T.C.:Having slimer, having having characters say old catchphrases Yeah. From the first one. I don't need cats and dogs living together. Man, it's hysteria. Yeah.
T.C.:Like, we don't need stuff like that. We don't need the
Jim:Although, actually, it would be kind of awesome to have the government guy shutting them down. He has a speech where it builds into that. Like, that's why I need to stop this. There
T.C.:that would be a good way to do it. Or to reference an earlier episode, a film of recently, I really liked Sarah Connor saying, I'll be back. Sure. In the way she did it, it was very, I'll be back. Mhmm.
T.C.:Like, that's funny. It's there for the fans. Like, I I appreciate that. So I don't know. I it's tough to say.
T.C.:I am I'm gonna let's wrap this up. I'm gonna throw it to the listeners and just say, I'm wondering if we nailed it or if we fell short here. Oh, I will say, I don't think we came up with anything that would raise the budget. I think the ideas we've posited would give we wouldn't have to change the budget of the existing 2016 movie.
Jim:Actually, what the studio probably demanded that we'll we took out, honestly, was we didn't talk about set pieces and where the special effects would be.
T.C.:Well, I honestly think we've we've mapped out a film that would more or less do exactly the same amount of CG we got in the 02/2017.
Jim:That's true.
T.C.:It wouldn't the big climactic battle in time.
Jim:The CG into the different montages Yeah. Yeah. We have.
T.C.:I I don't feel like we conceptualize something that would be bigger than what we got. Sure. Honestly, I I if we talk CG and whatnot, I would like to see more practical effects. It's it is incredible to me for as advanced as CGI is getting, how worse it looks now. I'm not saying
Jim:I need I don't know.
T.C.:Not not all
Jim:of I watched episode one again.
T.C.:Not not
Jim:And it is bad.
T.C.:I'm not saying I'm not saying the CGI we have now is is horrendous, but and I'm not saying I just want puppets for everything. It just feels there's a there's a strange and and I think it does come into the develop the CG before the script is on start the CG. Like, it's a it's a weird it's a weird time for special effects.
Jim:It is. And and with Ghostbusters, you're you're not wrong. The 2016 one leaned into the cartoony look. Mhmm. Like, I feel like it was despite trying to be its own thing, I think it leaned into the, like, the neon cartoony ghost look of of the cartoon, of the original of the the real Ghostbusters cartoon, which these are ghosts.
Jim:They're spirits of dead people.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Why do they look like weird monsters? They they look like yokai from mythic Japan.
T.C.:Nerd. Let that's talking about the scary elements of the first one, those ghosts are creepy looking. Yeah. Slimer is he's Slimer, but he's still a gross disgusting puppet.
Jim:Yeah. No. I say that at the same time, let's make some weird looking ghosts. Oh, sure. Sure.
Jim:Sure. Because we're gonna we're gonna chop them up with lasers so they can't look too much like people.
T.C.:Yeah. So let's let's wrap it up there. I I I feel like we've got something fun here. I don't think we we altered too much of the existing one. We just improved upon.
Jim:I think our version would at least well, first of all, it would acknowledge and put itself into the canon of the Ghostbusters world.
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:You could even get the one that's coming out this summer and have it be a part of it. You wouldn't have to ignore it like it was some sort of Highlander two. Yeah. And I believe ours would be no matter which letter you give it, it would be a whole letter grade at least a letter grade above what it got.
T.C.:I would like to think so. And I'm curious to see what the listeners have to say about that. So you can let's do the social stuff so people can yell at us or agree with us or what have you.
Jim:I haven't changed my Twitter handle yet, and I keep meaning to.
T.C.:You can find us at studiodemandsit.com where you too can send us a demand. We're, so get on there. You can send a demand. You can name your studio. Have some fun with that.
T.C.:We are on Apple Podcasts and Google Play. Spotify, question mark? I can't say for sure we're on there yet. We might already be on there by the time this episode airs. I'll leave that to David to to let me know.
T.C.:So keep an eye on subscribe, like, share, if if possible. And a little review goes a long way on Apple Podcasts for us. You can do it right there in app. Even if it's a one star review, it helps us get out there to to, recommendations to other film podcast listeners. So take that for what it's worth.
T.C.:You can find me at T. C. Big Head on Twitter and Instagram. You can also find me on Facebook if you're curious enough to see what I'm up to day to day. Jim, where can people find you?
Jim:They can find me on Twitter at Tupac Waxon, the greatest Star Wars character ever. You can find me on Facebook, but I I mostly lurk there. I don't I don't post too much.
T.C.:Well So You can also find
Jim:We can
T.C.:just be silent friends. You can find at Studio Demands on Twitter and Instagram as well. So please like, subscribe, share, get get out there and and help spread the good word. And thank you everyone for listening to this and Yes. And making this so much fun.
Jim:I hope you liked our Ghostbusters.
T.C.:And if you didn't, please let us know. But, one final quick thank you to Six Five Media for giving us this platform. There's a Thank you very much. Some new content out there from Six Five, another Zelda podcast continuing along with a couple of new shows, which I I won't wanna recommend by name because I don't know them by name at the point of this recording, but they do exist. So
Jim:So So so, like, maybe there's there's, like, links somewhere?
T.C.:Possibly. Here?
Jim:Look for the links.
T.C.:At studio or, studiodemandsit.com.
Jim:Yes. Yeah.
T.C.:But that is it for this episode. We have been your screenwriters for for today. We'll be back again with another challenge to improve the world of cinema based on the demands of your studio. I am T. C.
Jim:I am Jim. And 2020. 2020.
T.C.:That is here's our ending. Yeah. I love that's it. No no sign off.
Jim:You had you you were your intro was way more, verbose. Not not quite purple, but yeah.
T.C.:Did I trim it down a little bit?
Jim:No. No. No. You you you you made it longer. Like, I think you you said, oh, yeah.
Jim:We're the poor bastard.