Hello, and welcome to the studio demands it where each week we take a property that simply had to be made, and we determine how to satisfy the studio's crazy ass demands and make a better product than what we got. This is an exercise of creative thinking where we will challenge ourselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a property based on the stipulations of this hypothetical Hollywood overlord. I am TC DeWitt, and joining me as always is my esteemed fellow filmmaker, Jim Burrito Burzelic. Jim, how are doing? Good.
T.C.:I'm I'm so full.
Jim:Of of of my namesake. Of
T.C.:of your burritos. Ate a burrito. I it was too big of a burrito. Was it? I kinda wanna nap.
Jim:Wow. I I could actually go for another.
T.C.:Oh my god. It's the size of a football. Yeah. Oh, jeez.
Jim:I'm a two football kind of guy.
T.C.:You're a two football so where to begin? We have our ridiculous pile of studio properties. We also now have a listener request options at studiodemandsit.com where you can submit a demand. I can see it on our mobile for sure. I am not seeing it on the desktop yet, so I don't think I don't know what's going on there, but I'll talk to people upstairs.
T.C.:You can send us any demand you like as well as name your fictional studio. So last week, we had a fantastic demand from a listener, and I'm very excited to see what you folks throw at us. Maybe they'll throw a burrito at us, Jim.
Jim:I would gladly make it. No matter uh-oh. Actually I can now imagine some studio demands on a burrito that would make it unappealing.
T.C.:Why
Jim:would I do that?
T.C.:Well, why would you do that? Because that's what we do here.
Jim:Yeah, it is what we do.
T.C.:Have we reached a point of like have we milked the board game cow, so we're done with like a Monopoly movie? Oh god no. Well do you think after we've done that we'll move on to like, how do we make a Ronald McDonald movie? Or how do we
Jim:is there gonna I'm kinda surprised we haven't done it already.
T.C.:Well, I mean, have the founder, which is just about the foundation of McDonald's. But I'm talking like
Jim:The mascots.
T.C.:Yeah. The man like the Burger King Yeah. Like a Civil War movie, Burger King versus
Jim:how close we probably, were whatever timeline we're in, we're in the one where it didn't happen. Uh-huh. Because Burger King, when they unleashed the king mascot, they made a series of video games that were Really?
T.C.:Like Awesome. Like mobile games?
Jim:No. No. This mobile games really weren't that big of a thing at the time. Oh, closer. Okay.
T.C.:I just wanna be closer
Jim:to you. I I understandable. I wanna be closer to me.
T.C.:So Let's see
Jim:the And Burger King, they they made games for Xbox. Mhmm. The the first Xbox, not not the three The big so pre yeah. Pre March. Zero.
Jim:They made four of them. You could buy them from Burger King, $5 each. Oh. Were great. Sneak King was my favorite one.
Jim:It was a stealth game. You snuck around an area to get behind people, and then you'd pop out with a hamburger
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Give it to them. It was great.
T.C.:I don't care how fun you make this sound and how enjoyable you think you we are not gonna get a sponsorship from Burger King. So just curb that enthusiasm right there.
Jim:I could describe the other games.
T.C.:But it it it wouldn't that be an adaptation of the games and not of the I'm
Jim:not No, that's separate from making a Burger King movie.
T.C.:I want the Hamburglar movie that we deserve.
Jim:Robble, Robble. Wait. Are you telling me this is the demand?
T.C.:This is not the demand. Great feedback on cream of the crop, Rise to the Top. I left laughing. Like, I thought about that later in the night after we finished recording and could not
Jim:stop giggling with Although, see, no, now you put this new idea in my head, and and as we tend to do here or or think about often our cinematic universes.
T.C.:Oh, yeah. Right? Like a civil war rattle.
Jim:Make one with all the different fast food.
T.C.:But I have
Jim:The thing is I actually I know of two different they're actually comic books that I've seen do things like that. Like just dark
T.C.:universe, yeah.
Jim:Dark gritty But
T.C.:like a dark gritty version.
Jim:I read a post apocalyptic one where Ronald McDonald was like the Mad Max character. And actually, my friend and I were sitting around. I forgot how we got on that topic. We actually came up with that that title Mad Max, m a c s.
T.C.:Oh, yeah.
Jim:Beyond the hunger dome.
T.C.:Bravo. Bravo.
Jim:Two men enter, one man feeds.
T.C.:Boo. It's so funny, love it. That's a Okay, now it's gonna happen. You've achieved something the studio didn't know they wanted. And talk about the tie in, McDonald's would pump a million bucks into this, right?
T.C.:Yeah. And the trick would be how do you get all the properties? Like how do
Jim:you get
T.C.:the This is a Roger Rabbit scenario. We gotta have a lot of agreement. King needs to have this much screen time. Oh, on, the king is only like 10 years old. Ronald McDonald's been around since Wilford Brimley's been doing them.
T.C.:Not Wilford Brimley, Willard Scott. Don't at me.
Jim:Oh gosh. So you got so however you do it, all of these characters need to be protagonists. Unfortunately.
T.C.:Not necessarily if you look
Jim:Well who's gonna want their mascot to be the bad guy?
T.C.:The king. The creep? No. He's Okay. Look.
T.C.:I actually have a movie mascot or sorry. A a franchise
Jim:Oh, god. I exact I know exactly how I would where
T.C.:I would use the Let's go. Let's go.
Jim:The king would come in, like, somewhere in act two when the the heroes that we've so far gathered are captured somewhere by by whomever our villain is Mhmm. The hunger lord. And and so so they they they have no way to get out, and suddenly the king
T.C.:Just creeps in.
Jim:Kinda pops up from behind his do it. And they look at and like, he as the king does, has no lines. He just kinda shows up. And he he unlocks it. And he he makes the the quiet finger in front of his face, and then he he he sneaks them out.
Jim:Not that the king always has to be sneaking, but that was actually a really fun part of that whole marketing campaign. And He's a creeper.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jim:This is He surprises you with delightful treats.
T.C.:This could be at the level of Wreck It Ralph, of good, but live action. Yes. Could. You're on. You're on.
T.C.:This the studio didn't know they wanted this, but now it must must happen. Yeah. But I do have an idea for a food mascot movie, but it would be a a biopic. Like a something in the vein of like what's the not walk the line. The one where
Jim:Walk hard? No. I was thinking that
T.C.:the Joseph Gordon Levitt where he walked across the Twin Towers. That one. Oh man, I can't believe it. Something like that. Man Unaware?
T.C.:Man Unaware. No, no, that was the documentary it was based on. People are screaming at us right now. Or like the bank job with, what's his name? Oh, God.
T.C.:This is terrible radio right now. The transporter, fricking Jason Jason Statham.
Jim:Oh, saw that one.
T.C.:Yeah. It's like a cool heist movie, but not overly fantastical. It's like
Jim:Well, because it was yeah. It was it was based on a real story.
T.C.:Right. So my pitch for a biopic of sorts is, do you know the story of the Noid?
Jim:So you'd wanna you'd wanna make a movie about the actual story of the Noid?
T.C.:Of the the actual Not
Jim:not like the fictional growing story of the Noid growing up or anything like Here
T.C.:here's my twist on it. Right? You could go straight drama because there's a this is a dramatic story. Do you know what happened with the Noid? Okay, well we'll get You could go the straight drama route, or you could go like the Son of Sam meets Happy route where he sees the Noid, where the main character is annoyed by the Noid, right?
T.C.:So the Noid was the Domino's pizza mascot. He's this little claymation man in a red rabbit suit and he stole the pizza or whatever, right?
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:There was a guy in real life
Jim:He didn't steal the pizza, he made it soggy and gross. That's
T.C.:what he Right. Right. But there was a guy in real life named it was just called The Wok. That was the Joseph Gordon Levitt movie. What a dumb title, Zemeckis.
T.C.:There was a guy named Noid. Like, that was his last name. And he was harassed by people because of the popularity of the Noid.
Jim:Oh wow.
T.C.:He went into a Domino's with a gun. Oh. And held the establishment hostage because he was so pissed off at Domino's that he wanted them to get rid of the mascot because of what it had done to him. So it'd be that. This isn't the fun mascot movie you were pitching.
T.C.:I'm thinking more like a dark, falling down, crazy ass movie. Because that's a very that's one of those like truth is stranger than fiction kind of things. Yeah. Because I I remember thinking like whatever happened to the Noid and I looked it up and I was like,
Jim:oh. Although the Noid would make a good villain.
T.C.:In the Yeah.
Jim:The whole point to that character is that he's ruining things.
T.C.:Yeah. He's the bad guy. Can you get, like, the little seat? Let's not talk. Come on.
T.C.:We have other things to do here. However, you have delved into an area that is similar to the studio demand for today. Now we have so far on this show done film.
Jim:Yes, we have.
T.C.:The studio demand today is not film. You bear with me, you'll be fine. In fact, you already have ideas. Do I? Yeah, you
Jim:do. Okay.
T.C.:Okay, so the way this works, we are about to pitch a demand from a studio and we are going to sit here and try to meet what we assume were the demands of said studio at the time and try to fix what we got. Okay? Yes. So the studio demands a more tied in Defenders Netflix universe. A Marvel Knights Division, four part four series serieses of the Netflix.
T.C.:So Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage
Jim:Those specific Iron Fist. Four titles, are we allowing Punisher? Are we allowing Yep.
T.C.:Punisher can be in there. Like, now I'm giving you the original four.
Jim:Okay. We got Must do four, others are electives.
T.C.:Exactly. Like if you want to see, bullseye in this, if you wanna see Frank Castle sooner, if you want what have you. The studio is demanding we have a more, a more connected television series universe to the MCU. The demand is that we satisfy what I've been asking for. This all comes up from Age of Ultron, 2000 was that '15?
T.C.:2015, when Sokovia is rising into the sky and Black Widow's looking out over the there's worse places there's worse views. Right?
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:And then you hear Nick Fury say, if you like the view now, and then he rises up with an old S. D. Hellicarrier. He says, I dug up a few old friends. We cut inside and we see Nick Fury and Maria Hill and a bunch of who the hell are these people?
T.C.:That was a perfect opportunity for the fricking Agents of S. L. To be staying there. We don't need Colson. We don't need to confuse the plebs that aren't watching Agents of S.
T.C.:H.
Jim:E. D.
T.C.:But we coulda had Agent May. We coulda had Fitz and Simmons. And secondly, in Homecoming, when fricking damage control shows up to take the Vulture's cleanup job away from him, that could have been the Agents of S. L. D.
T.C.:All right? So there's missed opportunities. And I've complained to you before that fricking Sam Rockwell should have been the bad guy in Ant Man versus the Wasp and not Walter Gogs. Love Walter Gogs, but Sam Rockwell, Hammer should have been bad. I want a more connected universe because I like a lot of what Netflix did with the Defenders.
T.C.:I dislike a lot of what they did. Let's fix this because if it was more connected both ways, I feel like those Netflix shows would have been more successful and we would be getting more of them. Disney wouldn't have canceled them. They would have brought them over and said, Oh no, we we gotta continue this. Sure.
T.C.:So that is the studio demand today. Make a more, like a better collective universe. We'll call it the Marvel Knights line. Okay. They're all the street heroes.
T.C.:Yeah. So I let your brain stew for a moment here. I think Daredevil works. There's very little about Daredevil I would change. Particularly that first season I like it a lot.
T.C.:I think the second season is weak because they were delving into spinning off Punisher and it got a little muddy in there.
Jim:So my first thought is I don't know I don't remember the timeline of when and if that's important to to this exercise.
T.C.:They're demoing
Jim:when they came out in coordination with other movies.
T.C.:Okay. So Agents of S. L. D. Out in 2015.
T.C.:May, April 20 May 2015, and Daredevil came out April 2015. That's when the cinematic universe started. Or sorry, the the Netflix division of this universe started was in
Jim:And right after of Avengers one.
T.C.:Right after Avengers one. So if and a couple of the sequel films. So if you wanna look at Age of Ultron as your more or less your starting point for the Marvel Knights division, that gives you a reference of what movies you can play with. Sure. Okay?
T.C.:So if you want flashbacks involved in here, that's fine too. If you wanna like, for example, if you if we're gonna play with Iron Fist as being another rich person in New York. We have the Roxanne Corporation.
Jim:I I don't wanna go too much into it, but I I may end up using this episode as as the pet episode to to get or I'm sorry, as the episode to get my pet changes in for that. I I yeah.
T.C.:More or less why I I chose this as our demand for a day because I know you have ideas. I don't. I I have I have some this is a mistake I made with Batman versus Superman. I'm never gonna make it again. I've not thought about this demand other than the idea.
T.C.:I think that Daredevil is that first season is amazing. I really like the first season of Jessica Jones as well.
Jim:I
T.C.:agree. Beyond that, everything starts falling apart for me. There's good, but there's a lot of bad. And even talking season two of both those shows, Defenders as a whole, there's lots of mistakes they've made. So let's just start with Daredevil.
T.C.:How do you feel about Daredevil as it is? What would you do differently to meet the demands? Can we sneak Daredevil into the movie somewhere?
Jim:Let's see here. I agree that first season of Daredevil is really, really good. I I was very, very impressed by it. Where what could we sneak in more? Because that that's that's the thing.
Jim:That whole first season plays out like a like a Batman year one. Like, no. It's it's not a bottle episode, but like, it's it's contained unto itself. Yeah. Yeah.
Jim:Nothing nothing about, I feel like, nothing about what happens feels like it needs to be informed by more of the MCU. They make a they make a couple references. Right? Like Mhmm. They mentioned the hammer and and iron man at at one point, or Tony Stark.
Jim:I forget the exact reference they make, but they they reference those two. They reference the event in their Exactly.
T.C.:And and Fisk's whole property development thing is coming out of the wreckage of the first Avengers film. Right? Like Yeah. The the reason this gentrification and proper like, it's it's land. I know people are gonna be like, oh, freaking Lex Luthor, first Superman movie.
T.C.:Blah. Like Okay.
Jim:It's Well, land land honestly, we could we could I'll bet we could make a giant list of movies, and just stories in general about people and land ownership because it's a big deal.
T.C.:Yeah. Save the rec center. But so it's it is very contained in Hell's Kitchen. It I don't think that first season needs to have any sort of, like, connection to the to the MCU. No.
T.C.:I I think that it it may it what makes the street level heroes work as the four they well, the three that they selected that work at street level, work. I think Luke being in Harlem really works. I think Jessica being a detective on the streets who doesn't want anything to do with the wider scope of being a superhero works.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:I think Daredevil being on the ground, punching the crap out of people, going up against specifically Kingpin
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Works. I think that that all the shadow and street level stuff really, really works.
Jim:And and Kingpin's dealings, him trying to go legit or at least showing to go legit while having the the underworld workings also very much worked for that. And we didn't need too much elaboration there. I think if anything, if there's any changes, you start dropping a few more names there that you can use later.
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:Because I think what I would do in a season two, you can incorporate Punisher. You can incorporate his whole sort of origin bad guy stuff that happens there as well. But I think by time you get to season two I know I I I need to backtrack a
T.C.:little bit here.
Jim:But with with Daredevil season two, I think by that point, one of the things that needs to happen is you diversify the the street level criminal element a lot more. And it's Marvel, but it's also Marvel Knights. It's it's MCU. It's it's a little more realistic, but you make them comic book gangs. Right?
Jim:You don't have to go full on the warriors where the baseball players in in face paint, but you start kind of playing that up. You create so one of the things I'd love to see more of, I'm sure they do more in the comics and I'm just not aware of it, but is how and where HYDRA recruits.
T.C.:Yes. Yes.
Jim:So you create this street level criminal element that that's like you see a few hydro recruiters. You see other criminal organizations recruiting from from this base of of of street gangs and stuff. And so you can establish your ninjas as as, is needed for Daredevil and Iron Fist. Mhmm. But you also establish other criminal organizations.
Jim:You they you started to in the first Daredevil, but then the Russians were very quickly swept away.
T.C.:Yeah. They I see what you're saying. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Having having these more divided areas to play in because you could have hints of the seven rings or the sorry, the 10
Jim:rings.
T.C.:Right? You could have hints of the Mandarin. Mhmm. Right? In in fact, the the the the the end result of of the defenders going up against Sigonia Weaver as who was she?
T.C.:Yeah. Why why couldn't it have been the the 10 rings? Why couldn't that be the way we get the Mandarin back into the mix of things? Right?
Jim:I mean, I have my pet theory on how I would want that to happen, but that's actually a pretty decent secondary way to do it. I'd be okay with that.
T.C.:To have the ninjas, to have the gun criminals, like, know, I'm kinda like, gun criminals, knife criminals.
Jim:So the other the other thing that I think is important with the MCU that like a couple of the shorts touched on, and and I it's the other reason I'd want to lay the groundwork for a lot of these criminal organizations is because we get to see just a sample of it again by the time we get to Spider Man Homecoming. If you lay the groundwork, that way the Vulture selling off wares
T.C.:things Atari, yeah.
Jim:Yeah. I think a lot of that technology would be proliferated among these these criminals that that we're we're laying the groundwork for. But and that lets us that lets us do some a lot more references. Like like, I I I forget where, but I I know, like I think you I think it was homecoming where they they took a bunch of secondary dudes and and made them Vulture's henchmen.
T.C.:Yeah. We have Shocker and, like, Prowlers in there with the Dow Glover reference.
Jim:Yeah. Wasn't Stiltman even in there?
T.C.:The Stiltman is the guy who made Daredevil's costume in the first season of Daredevil. Yeah.
Jim:So he's That he was also Stiltman. Yeah. I I forgot that Stiltman was also the guy who made things.
T.C.:Yeah. But but yes, they're the vultures cronies are kinda third tier. Yeah. Like shocker is passed on between the first guy and the second guy. Sure.
T.C.:Gloves. And, the guy who does his tech, know he's he's someone as well. Mhmm. So yeah. Having the criminal, the
Jim:And not necessarily those guys, but just more.
T.C.:References to that, for sure. If we're looking specifically at Daredevil being a Fisk, the wannabe gangster. And he's not a wannabe, he's a very successful gangster, but he's Fisk is one of the best villains in the MCU. I'm talking movies and shows, I think.
Jim:Now, right, he's gotten enough amazing stories.
T.C.:Yeah. He's he's up there with Loki. I think, Kilgrave, the purple man from Jessica Jones is one of the best villains in the MCU as well. But Fisk being this wannabe, you know, having a passing glance at him of Tony Stark in Iron Man three talk like, just a reference to, like, oh, you got Rand Industries and that Fisk fella down at Harlem. I'm not worried about him.
T.C.:Even something like that, just a little more name dropping references, offhanded remarks that to the everyday moviegoer might just, Oh, just a name of somebody. But that you draw that breath through your teeth moment when you see it in a movie like, Oh,
Jim:that was a reference to
T.C.:Fisk. Seeing Rand Industries. Because Roxanne is, they're using Shield a lot, and we've seen the Roxanne logo in the films as well. And that's another one of those rando rich fella competitors of Tony Stark kind of situation. I we'll get to Iron Fist.
T.C.:Mean, I I don't Daredevil, I think, is our entry point because it was the entry point into the Marvel Knights universe. I think references in the conversations to what Fisk is trying trying to do. I love your idea of bringing in more of those lower tier bad guys. But Hydra and the Mandarin as well, think there's
Jim:a
T.C.:there's a way to play with those other groups. Mandarin had the extremist folks. Yep. Now what Agents of S. E.
T.C.:D. Does nicely is they will have those like they'll have a Lady Sif episode, Or they'll have a the cleanup of London after Thor the Dark World moment, which actually was the same episode. Sorry. But those those nice tie ins, like, Agents of S. D.
T.C.:Is directly affected by the movies Yeah. In many of
Jim:its seasons. You could you could honestly say Agents of Shield was sort of built and meant to maintain hype between movies.
T.C.:Sure. Sure. Yeah.
Jim:Which I thought it was a good story unto itself, and I actually thought did a really good job of keeping me excited and plugged into the Marvel Universe.
T.C.:I agree. And anyone who gave up on Aeasons of Shield, go back because that show just kept getting better every Apparently,
Jim:the newest season has started as of this recording. Mhmm. And it's, I'm excited to watch it.
T.C.:See. So That's that's exciting. And I love the tie ins to them. So what, what the CW Arrowverse does really well is Mhmm. They share universe, they share characters, they play in the sandbox.
T.C.:So if a character on Agents of S. L. D, Hunter and Mockingbird, went up to beginning, why couldn't they have shown up for an episode in Jessica Jones? Or why couldn't they have shown up for an episode in Daredevil? Like, damage control is what they were gonna be.
Jim:Well, I think okay. So to to to play the opposite point Of course. That that's kinda like saying why doesn't Berlanti have any of the the Arrowverse things? Why didn't any of that show up in Gotham?
T.C.:Okay. Well okay. So we're dealing with
Jim:with because that's a quite different those are very they're different studios, and they're they're explicitly different universes. Whereas the Marvel stuff, the the nod, the reference is made. So it's, hey. This is the same universe, so why don't we play along a little better?
T.C.:That's what I'm demanding.
Jim:Yeah. And okay. So so how how do we do that? Because the thing is the just the the even the way it's shot, Daredevil, just the the the Marvel Knights shows are just shot totally different than Agents of Shield.
T.C.:And that's fine.
Jim:So if you have any of these characters show up on Agents of S. L. D, I feel like it's gonna be a little awkward. Or if you go the other way, suddenly Sky looks super gritty?
T.C.:I don't necessarily think it needs to be the main characters, but I will say this. Ghost Rider worked wonderfully as a supernatural element on Agents of S. L. It introduced supernatural elements before Doctor Strange into the MCU. And I think someone like Ghost Rider Here's how I would do this in terms of the big tie in episode.
T.C.:Every season of the Marvel Knights on Netflix always felt like one episode or two episode, too many. And we've talked about this with Luke Cage. Luke Cage feels like it's missing an episode smack dab in the middle of the series. I would do an event episode in the middle of each season that would be your tie into something else episode. It would be like the midway point, you kind of tie up your first half of your story and then you get that break before you launch into the climax of the season.
T.C.:In the middle there, you would have Ghost Rider show up, or you would have Hunter and Mockingbird show, or you I don't we haven't even talked about getting them into the movies. We're still playing with
Jim:the TV.
T.C.:So let's let's look at Luke Cage real quick. To have, his midpoint episode was kind of his backstory, right? Where he broke out of the prison, he got his powers, he got to wear the classic suit.
Jim:They brought in the family element and and his family.
T.C.:I would much rather have seen HYDRA being who was doing the experimenting and having him have to bust out of wherever he is and get a look at the abomination Or have him be on some offshoot of the rafts and get a look at some like, abomination's the only one I can think of who survived. Or c, make him be in the prison with Justin Hammer. Right? And the Mandarin. Like, they're And I'm not asking for them to steal the spotlight because this is the fine line to walk of how much pandering are you?
T.C.:Like, get it? Get it? I don't want that. I don't want that. But I want a more connected universe so that if you're paying attention to the whole spectrum of what the MCU is offering, it's more fulfilling, but not so distracting to people who aren't.
T.C.:And that's what the Arrowverse does really well. I didn't think to draw from them immediately, but Berlanti, what he's doing with the Arrowverse so nice because if you watch them all, you everything. If you only watch one show, occasionally you're gonna have a moment of being lost. Who's this character?
Jim:Whatever, it's
T.C.:still good, right? Daredevil been our access point. Let's look at Jessica. Because
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Jessica, again, that first season is great.
Jim:Oh, that it it really is. And it actually starts laying foundations to build out further that they just cut dead in the second one
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Which, frankly, Marvel, that that's kind of something all of the the film stuff has done. Right? Like, the the Marvel movies cut villains dead. Mhmm. They don't they don't they don't do continuing.
T.C.:We we we could've gotten more Ultron. We could've gotten there.
Jim:Like, so many villains could've kept going.
T.C.:I think they're getting better at that. Little because Vulture didn't get killed. Sure. They're planning on
Jim:the Sinister Six. Well, mean, technically a bunch. Right? Justin Hammer didn't get killed. Spoiler.
Jim:I'm I'm I we could go through them all. I we could spoil all of them.
T.C.:No. It's fine.
Jim:But I I actually thought season one of Jessica Jones was great the way it is.
T.C.:Yep. But once again, much like Daredevil, tiny tweaks to connect it to the bigger picture. I think Jessica as well, little conversations. Patsy Walker has her show, right, that she could have sound bites talking about the bigger picture of the MCU. Oh, well, we got the Hulk out there.
T.C.:We got Tony Stark flying around in his suit. What do we think here in this part of Manhattan? Like, even just little lines like that, a little more Because the Netflix shows did have offhanded comments from, like, every now and then sprinkled in. But those references, in terms of like, hey, here's a Hulk reference, they could make the exact same joke on The Flash, and it wouldn't be any different. It's just, oh, it's a pop culture reference, it's not a universe connect, like reference.
T.C.:The incident of the first Avengers is referenced a lot in Daredevil, that's it. Right? Like, there's one in particular, and we'll get to it after our break, because I just want to look at Daredevil and Jessica right now. And we also have Frank Castle being brought in. I enjoyed what they did with Punisher quite a bit.
Jim:Yeah. I don't know how I'd connect him more. I guess using him on the fodder of the work we we laid down with Daredevil one by introducing more of a criminal element, more of a basically just something to justify not just dudes with pistols and switchblades, dudes with laser pistols and sonic blades.
T.C.:Think My mobile
Jim:blades, that's what they'd be called.
T.C.:I think Frank's your access point to Agents of S. D. Because I don't think Frank has a huge leap to go into an episode of Agent or a two part episode in Agents of S. H. L.
T.C.:D. Where they're investigating some meta and they come across this crazy man with freaking guns blowing the doors off the place. You get a split off the team and you have Mac, who's like the heart and soul of the Agents of S. L. D.
T.C.:To work side by side with crazy ass Frank Castle. That's a team up I want to see, And that's not like sticking Daredevil next to Agent Coulson. Think Frank Castle works as a great connector to Agents of S. L. D.
T.C.:Seeing Sky and Jessica Jones throw some punches at each other isn't crazy either. Or seeing Daredevil and Agent May, Not
Jim:bad. Not bad. I could Yeah, something could be worked out there. I don't yet know what those episodes would be about.
T.C.:Right, and it's the gimmick and now build around it. The studio doesn't care, Just
Jim:say it'll happen.
T.C.:Just say it'll happen. Sure, sure, we'll figure it out.
Jim:I kinda wanna figure it out now.
T.C.:Well, here's the thing, with Agents of S. E. D, they had the Terrigen Mist that activated basically the mutants in the universe, right? Jessica being experimented on, that's in she's May
Jim:make her an inhuman?
T.C.:Or some sort of experimentation on the Terrigen Mist that gave her her abilities. Because the whole idea behind the experiments on her were to unlock her potential, right?
Jim:And It would have had to be something like that.
T.C.:And the experimentations they did on Jessica and, what was Patsy's boyfriend end of season one, into season two, like he
Jim:That was Nuke. Wasn't that his
T.C.:character I could Google it. There's no way to find out. But why wasn't that experimentation the same as Luke's experimentation? Their powers are really similar, Right?
Jim:Well, because in the comics, her Patsy's Patsy's boyfriend, the one who goes nuts on on the the stuff. Right? He his stuff was a Griffin. Offshoot Right. Greg, that doesn't sound right.
Jim:Right? I'm you're looking at it, so must be right. Of Captain America's super soldier serum.
T.C.:Say, Griffin was her boyfriend season two. Continue. Yes. Super superhero serum is what created nuke.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. So so there you go. Actually, give that a little more story. Just just a little more story, and and you can because that that was the that was the whole dang plot to First Avenger between Captain America and Red Skull.
Jim:Right? They were they were both variations of the super soldier serum. And one thing the Ultimate Universe did of the comics, which honestly a lot of the MCU is based on,
T.C.:there
Jim:were tons of stories that were about different governments trying to create their own super soldiers. In the comics, just nerd off shooting here, Wolverine, Weapon X, was
T.C.:That's right.
Jim:Was an experiment to make a super soldier.
T.C.:Will Simpson, aka
Jim:That's a, yeah, Simpson. Yes. You could incorporate more super soldier
T.C.:plots. Yes. Oh, dude.
Jim:That actually makes that actually makes so we don't it doesn't we don't need the Terrigen thing at all.
T.C.:No. We can go off the super here super serum. And and couldn't Jigsaw be a division of Hydra? Like Jigsaw from Frank Kat saw delving into Punisher here. Because he's
Jim:He could be a bunch of different things. Could be I'm sure there's two or three organizations that I'm just not thinking of right now.
T.C.:That he could play in. I Yeah. The I okay. Continue. Sorry.
Jim:No. No. That that's that's mostly where I'm at. I I I kinda like the idea of of following this super soldier thing outward. You make Jessica's you make them you make them branch.
Jim:Oh, maybe oh, I don't want to tie everything into Hydra, but it's really convenient. It's and it is they get because they get their tendrils and everything.
T.C.:All six of
Jim:But I like the idea that that Jessica's experimentation and then the doctor at the prison with Luke Cage, they're different. They're completely different organizations that when they trace back when when you investigate them deep enough, they come back to the same the same route. It's the same group saying we're gonna put this out to a dozen different groups. Each of you experiment in your own way and come back with what you what you find.
T.C.:And yes. And if it and if it's a Hydra situation, right? And that's with Jessica and Luke.
Jim:No. Because this is Mortal Knights, and it doesn't have to be Hydra, and it can come back to the Ninjas.
T.C.:No. I was gonna take it back to the ninjas, but go ahead.
Jim:The the whole reason the ninjas would oh, the the the the hand. Right? Yep. The whole reason the hand would be doing this, the whole reason that they'd be wanting super soldiers is because they can't get past the iron fist. So they're looking for anything they can.
Jim:And if they can develop a super soldier serum, they can then put it in their own trained people. So now you have a super ninja Mhmm. To take on. I I have other theories about how I think the hand should work, but this works this works as well.
T.C.:Oh, I
Jim:And in that way that way it can tie back in all of our Marvel Knights and our final defenders Mhmm. Thing. That's that's another way this can all tie together rather than just big hole in the ground.
T.C.:Well, I forget what
Jim:that was for.
T.C.:Because the bones of a dragon were down there
Jim:and making it
T.C.:a reality. Right?
Jim:And no. No. No. I I don't mind that.
T.C.:Just show me the dragon. Just borrow one of the fricking Game of Thrones dragons. Hey, can we borrow that? Look, I love your idea here of connecting the super serum. Let's use Luke and Jessica to play in that realm.
T.C.:They have a division of Hydra that created these two different And the hand dealing with Daredevil and the hand wanting to have super ninjas to go up against the Iron Fist, I like that. What do you think of this? I'm gonna throw it out there. If we have this Hydra Wing, which Jessica and Luke leading them to a point, and you have Daredevil following the hand, which then leads to the Mandarin, And then the Mandarin and the Hydra basically decide, hey, we have the same goals here. So then for the defenders, you have all these characters coming following different trails of evil that all lead to the same thing.
Jim:I'm yeah. I think I think I I don't you might have worded it a little different than I'm thinking or maybe you worded it the same way.
T.C.:Go ahead.
Jim:But no. No. I I like that. Hydra and the hand Mhmm. And the the getting closer.
Jim:And the Mandarin is just an entirely third party that
T.C.:Okay. Yes.
Jim:Yeah. That they're all working they're all all three are working together. Mhmm. The Mandarin has made deals with Hydra and the hand and is is working towards whatever his end would be.
T.C.:Yeah. And and Which
Jim:is to summon Fin Fang Foong.
T.C.:Who's a dragon?
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:What the hell? Alright.
Jim:I wanna take a quick break here because I wanna throw a
T.C.:Luke Cage change in here that I think would fix things
Jim:eventually. I also have a thing with Luke Cage I would like to
T.C.:Okay. Let's take a quick break here and hears from, six five Media, our wonderful, overlords. Yay. We'll be right back.
Jim:Hi there. I'm David.
Commercial:And I'm Kate.
Jim:And we're the hosts of another Zelda podcast.
Commercial:There are so many good podcasts out there, and some of them in particular concern the Legend of Zelda.
Jim:That's right, Kate. And we are another one of them. We that is actually the name of our show, another Zelda podcast.
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Jim:Yeah. We do deep dives on game design and production aspects of the different Zelda games.
Commercial:And we talk about our our own experiences, we do some review episodes, talk about our challenges, our struggles, and our victories.
Jim:That's right. You know, really just almost anything that has to do with Zelda, we like to talk about it. A new episode comes out every other Friday, and you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, and YouTube.
Commercial:And you can also check out our episodes on our website, anotherzeldapodcast.com.
Jim:That's right. Alright. We will see you there.
T.C.:Okay. Bye. Okay. We're back. Okay.
T.C.:So we got any little tweaks we made to Jessica and and Daredevil, I think those changes more come into play season two. I think season one of Daredevil and I I really, really like those first seasons of those two shows.
Jim:Jessica, I enjoyed season two. Mhmm. But I was sad that they kept like, I understand it. They were they were they were going for which is a detective show where every lead, like, ends up dead kinda thing, and that's what they were doing there. But it really kinda bummed me out that they took these really interesting characters and just gacked them.
Jim:Yeah. Like, the the the speed guy who can go fast when no one's looking. That's great. How he would have been so much and and he's a conspiracy theorist. Yeah.
Jim:It would have been so much fun to have show up later or or just, again, don't don't don't kill
T.C.:him dealing now where you have the hand and the mandarin and hydra. Like, give me the board of red yarn in the room.
Jim:And and how great would that be to have to give Jessica someone who is who who, like, sees all these connections even more than she does, but is way crazier. So he's this nut that she has to basically have in her have in her side pocket. Right? Like
T.C.:I have to deal with this guy. Yes.
Jim:Yeah. That'd be great.
T.C.:Hey. I got oh, he could have memorabilia from the previous movies. And he doesn't have to, like, make I don't want a freaking, the mummy situation where you walk through a room
Jim:and, like,
T.C.:look at that. Look at that. But just having a shelf.
Jim:No. I wanna have a scene where a character does explicitly that. They point at a thing, go look at that. Well, if anyone's gonna do
T.C.:it, it's gonna be crazy speed guy. He'd be like, oh, do you see this gauntlet from Iron Man over here? Oh, and this is a piece of a vibranium. Oh, and Joe, this is over here. Listen, I don't care about
Jim:all this. Actually, the way he would do it is he would be pointing out serial numbers and how they all connect back together and they all come from this place over here. And it yeah.
T.C.:This is a this is a zol this is Zola. You know Zola? He's from Hydro. Okay? Let me There's an opportunity here.
T.C.:They made a big mistake in Civil War and Luke Cage. They cast the same woman to play two different characters. When if they had made her the same Think of the implications in Luke Cage. I believe it's Alfre Woodard who played what's her name? Luke Cage.
Jim:Black Moriah.
T.C.:Yes. Okay. You never call me that. Alfrey Woodard played Black Moriah in Luke Cage, and she was in a Wilson Fisk capacity just trying to take over Harlem. Right?
T.C.:She also played the mother of a deceased Greenpeace person, Sokovia, who died in Sokovia because of she's at the elevator with Iron Man. She pulls out the photo. He thinks she's gonna grab a gun.
Jim:And she
T.C.:says, you killed my son. How do you feel about that, Mr. Stark? Make that the same woman. Black Moriah could have been motivated to take over her city to be the queenpin she wanted to be because she wanted to, I'm gonna carve out a section of this city, and I'm gonna build an empire that is anti
Jim:Yeah, and I'm gonna show all the Starks that you can do things without your Yeah,
T.C.:like that was a huge missed opportunity. They can't Like, when she showed up in Civil War, or I can't remember which happened first, but I thought like, Oh,
Jim:that sucks. And then it wasn't. She's just
T.C.:a different woman. That is such a missed opportunity. And I say, Make her the same woman. Make her Black Moriah in Civil War. We didn't even need to hear her name.
T.C.:She doesn't have to change any of her dialogue. But that Civil War connection informs all of her motivations in Luke Cage And why she would have such an axe to grind against someone with superpowers like Luke Cage.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And and there is so much of of Luke Cage that I love. I love that it's set in Harlem. It's got the best soundtrack of the of the force or the five series of of the Marvel Knight's wing. I love the the the the black pride that it has. It's a it's a it's a fantastic show for those elements.
T.C.:But it's I mean, once you got rid of of Copperhead. Copperhead, Mahesh Ali, who gives a crap about Diamondback? That's how you start connecting it to the big defenders push. If you wanna get rid of Cottonmouth, which is a shame because Ali's an amazing actor and he's the best part of that series outside of Mike Coulter playing Luke Cage himself. Perfect casting, by the way, for Luke, Jessica, and Daredevil.
T.C.:I think those three are perfectly cast. You're disagreeing with me on No, no,
Jim:I'm not.
T.C.:We'll talk about Danny Rand in a moment. Because I okay. Actually, let's talk about Danny right now. Danny, I think could have been introduced.
Jim:We touched on Luke Cage. Just I I what would I have done different? I wouldn't have killed Copperhead. Mhmm. The thing Cottonmouth.
Jim:Cottonmouth. Cottonmouth. Yeah. Copperhead was a cottonmouth. The thing and this may be a pet story that no one else really cares about, but I really like that the Serpent Society became Serpent Solutions in the comics.
T.C.:They're another
Jim:They basically tried to kind of pseudo go legit or have have a cover thing, and I think that would have been amazing to see. Don't kill you if you need to take him out Mhmm. Don't kill him. Just remove him temporary. Like like, have him go away and bring him back in season two where, okay, he's not running the club anymore.
Jim:Now he's running this company. Mhmm. And and and so so now he stepped he stepped the game up. And then you can you can introduce more things with that. And that, by its nature, is automatically tied to Hydra as well.
T.C.:There you go. There you go. And you get to keep him around for season two. Mhmm. And I and I do think Elfie Warder could what essentially happened in Luke Cage is she we had Diamondback become the big bad for the second half
Jim:of the And the thing is, like, looking in hindsight at it, I think the idea and and and it didn't work for me. It may have worked for other people, but it went a little too over the top. Like, I think they were trying to do almost like a seventies blaxploitation feel with these these over the top kind of characters. Certainly. I felt like that took away at least with Diamondback took away from it.
Jim:If anything, they needed to show I would have preferred if there had been something like some sort of chemical, not just a suit that was showing him go crazy because he was he was this mastermind who crafted a plot way more convoluted than
T.C.:like needed to be.
Jim:Than any plot. Like, I've tortured you for thirty years all so that I could eventually punch you. It wasn't it didn't make sense to me, and it culminated in a street fight that just didn't feel earned.
T.C.:Yeah, absolutely. Here we go. This could get the Terrigen misconnection. He could have been experimenting with that to give himself unlock abilities, and he's just not built for it. And that's what drove It's not a super serum, like a superhero, super soldier serum.
T.C.:It's a completely different sort of chemical imbalance that he's created.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Because then you could have shield clean up in the end. If you know, having shield show up and be like, we'll take it from here. Well, who are you? Don't worry
Jim:about Rather than having to then explain all the Terrigen stuff well, you you do that. So you don't say it's you don't you may you may drop the word at some point. Mhmm. But that's at most is you'd get. I still think it you bring in the suit, but the suit filters it in a way that makes him be able to use it.
Jim:So he doesn't have to have the the inhuman gene that changes, but he's also not gonna turn to dust. Like what happens? So instead the suit modifies him somehow.
T.C.:Okay, yeah.
Jim:And and so then at the end, when he is picked up it's not just, oh the cops took him away. It's no, the Men in Blue, right now Men in Black, in the Shields were They showed up and they confiscated it.
T.C.:Yeah, absolutely. And what I think we could stem off of that is bring Cottonmouth back for season two, if Black Moriah is still the because what they did with her in season two still worked. And I like, it's I can't remember. I should just keep up the damn cast list so I don't have to keep looking. I would have Luke versus her like they had, because they have Shades played by Theorasi from Sons of Anarchy as her kind of Mhmm.
T.C.:Puppet master. Like, he's keeping her placated. But having her losing it while Cottonmouth comes back to take over Harlem, and he has recruited tons of supers that all are all Terrigen Mist and whatnot have you. Like Sure.
Jim:Well, it doesn't it doesn't even matter. That that guy's got glowy fists.
T.C.:Like Look
Jim:at this guy. He breathes smoke. That guy over there, he's got blurry feet.
T.C.:Yeah. What's what's what's that mean? I know
Jim:he's super, super fast guy.
T.C.:Look at his blurry feet. But having him come back to be, like, the second half of the season antagonist against Luke and Black Moriah, and he's shown up with a ton of superheroes. Because there's
Jim:a great Sure. Right? Because he's a weapons dealer, what's what's what's higher tech weaponry nowadays than superpowered?
T.C.:Than superpowered people. And you could get some callbacks to some lesser tier you You could have someone with extremists. You could have, one of the throwaway villains from Agents of S. L. D.
T.C.:There's not a lot to draw from from the films because they always kill everyone off. But I think that would be great to have him come back in. And Now, here's the thing, is that the season twos we're talking about here take place post Defenders, and we haven't even touched on that yet.
Jim:Oh, do they all take
T.C.:place post Well, we can futz with it. We can futz with this. Think that we can think if the studio says
Jim:Daredevil two didn't.
T.C.:No, Daredevil two did. It was
Jim:But all the rest did. Yeah.
T.C.:And that's fine. And we can futz with our timeline if the studio's happy with how these shows are working. Iron Fist.
Jim:Iron Fist.
T.C.:I'm gonna say this. While you gather your thoughts, I'm gonna say this, because you and I see things differently. If anyone would like to see what my opinion is on Iron Fist specifically, I'm gonna do a plug for my old YouTube series, the one minute rewatch. You can find it at thebitlifeshow, so youtube.com/thebitlife. You can look at the one minute rewatch, I did a whole series of them, but in particular I did one on Iron Fist where I reviewed an Iron Fist from an alternate dimension.
T.C.:So a better show than what we got, which had things like Colleen Winn's grandfather who trained her is stick. Something as simple as that would fix so much of what's bad about that show. I also recast Danny Rand to honor the Asian American community, and this is where Jim and I disagree, which is fine. Please don't at Jim. He has reasons for why he's Go ahead.
T.C.:But, so if you wanna see my full opinion on Iron Fist, I'm just gonna do a plug for my old show there. Now, how do we fix Iron Fist? This is the worst show. When I saw the preview for Iron Fist, it's the first episode of of Arrow in three minutes. The preview for Iron Fist season one is the first episode of Arrow.
T.C.:Like, what the hell, people? You could have done literally anything else here. I think Iron Fist could be introduced in Luke Cage season one. Have a a what is it? A Heroes for Hire moment.
T.C.:Like, this dude show up with a glowing fist who helps who the hell are you? I'm Danny Rand. And then he says it a thousand times. Or not. It's like there I'd how would you fix Iron Fist?
T.C.:Because I think people were pretty forgiving of the fallacies in Daredevil and Luke Cage and Jessica Jones. There weren't many, but people were forgiving of them. And then Iron Fist came out and set the bar so low for the Netflix wing, it ruined everything. All the good faith was gone because of season one of Iron Fist. If you're a fan of Iron Fist, please tweet me.
T.C.:I need to know this. The show in particular, not the comic, continually. Show the dragon! All right.
Jim:They were trying to specifically draw from the original material. They weren't trying to use other things. But so There's
T.C.:no ultimate iron fist. That's the problem.
Jim:Yeah. There well, the in in in my opinion, my favorite Iron Fist story would have been a great way to go about it, and that's Matt Fraction's run where Just
T.C.:like the Hawkeye. Matt Fraction's the best Hawkeye. Yeah. Yeah.
Jim:But but the re I'm pretty sure it's Matt Fraction. I hope I'm not doing a disservice to an author. But the reason I feel that way is because it does feel problematic that Danny Rand, the greatest martial artist ever, is a white guy.
T.C.:And he can get beat up by a blind guy.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Is it the Immortal Iron Fist? I just wanna Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. That actually yeah. That that run is called the Immortal Iron Fist.
T.C.:It's Dwayne Schorzer.
Jim:Oh, I'm a super bad I'm a super bad fan.
T.C.:That's it. He's as good as Matt Fraction. That's a compliment.
Jim:But what they establish in that story is that the immortal Iron Fist is not one well actually, I guess You
T.C.:know what? I apologize, it is Matt Fraction. Oh, it is. Yep. Yep.
T.C.:It was Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction.
Jim:Well, there you go. The, actually, I think I'm I'm kinda retreading even what what the show does mention is that the Iron Fist is a mantle that gets passed down.
T.C.:Correct. And Danny earned it by beating a dragon we never saw. I'm very upset about not seeing the dragon. It would've just a shot of it.
Jim:Sold the trick.
T.C.:We're
Jim:seeing You know what?
T.C.:Yeah. Ring bang boom goddammit.
Jim:Honestly, it it would I I know how I'd shoot it. It would end up being, you you put it in a dream. He wakes like like you get a you get a shot of of the silhouette of Danny and then like, you do a weird focus thing where the focus shifts from his silhouette to to the the this large dragon coming at him and it's glowing like the whole thing's made of fire. And like like as it descends on him Danny wakes
T.C.:I'm awake.
Jim:Yeah. There you go. Oh, we saw a dragon.
T.C.:Oh, shit.
Jim:What was that about?
T.C.:We're gonna really see the dragon in the Defenders movie.
Jim:Yeah. So so I think they they played it. They played into it a little bit, but they I think they needed to play up the element of some people feel that Danny didn't doesn't deserve to have it.
T.C.:True.
Jim:You you have him be the
T.C.:well
Jim:You you you you put it you you wear it on your sleeve
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:That that this guy this this dude probably shouldn't have these powers. What what could have happened that got this guy these crazy powers?
T.C.:He could have cheated. Like I if we wanna like I think your lampshade think you should lampshade him being white.
Jim:Interesting because now you're you're actually going in a direction I hadn't considered I thought about this now for so long. Now a lot of it's making sense. But the thing is now we need to we need to know how and why he cheated. Mhmm. I don't know that yet, but that actually explains why he's not good at fighting and why he loses.
T.C.:Where you're going there I think was that you think he should be white to play up the fact that he literally doesn't deserve to be the iron fist. To play into the audience's, problems with Danny being cast as a Caucasian, which I I get. I 100% there's not enough representation. When when Iron Fist failed, was like, Dear Lord, please do Shang Chi to make up for this because you guys dropped the ball on this thing. And thankfully, we are getting Master of Kung Fu as one of the Marvel phase four films.
T.C.:But I think lampshade, like actually addressing Foley, what are you doing as Iron Fist? You don't deserve it. You're not Well, see, that's
Jim:the thing, like thinking back, they did. They did try doing that, but they
T.C.:just Not at all. It was too much office stuff too.
Jim:I don't
T.C.:need to see people in a Skyrise business talking about acquisitions when there's a guy with a glowing fist beating up ninjas on the street. More of that first season has to do with the ward and like, come on. Let's deal with the hand. Because we have Claire Temple, who connects all these shows. And I like who's that?
T.C.:That's Rosario Dawson. I think she's great, and I love the Night Nurse being this connector through the series. There's also one of the thugs, the gun dealer that everybody beats up. I can't remember his name, but he's connector. He's like, Man, I love him that he's a connector too that people don't think about.
T.C.:But Danny going up against the hand and crossing paths with a, at the point out of the game daredevil is where he you know, connecting him to Thoggy, connecting him to Hogarth from Jessica. There there's you know, by the time we get to Iron Fist, which is the fourth series
Jim:Yep.
T.C.:We let's set up the last pieces for what the defenders need to be and and and really this this should be the one, like, if you've made it this far, you're gonna be okay with us doing heavy references to everything.
Jim:Yeah. The the other problem that I think happened with Iron Fist was I think they didn't know what role he was gonna play on a on that team of four. It was like, oh, he's gonna do what Daredevil does, but his hand is gonna glow.
T.C.:And that as well. Yeah.
Jim:And and that's not how I would've done the that that show. Iron Fist, he's he's supposed to be a living weapon. So so even if you wanna say he's not good at it, he still he should still be amazing comparatively.
T.C.:Yeah. Right? Cock mouth would love to have him on his team.
Jim:No. He should be he should be even better than that. So the the way you differentiate his martial arts fighting from Daredevil's martial arts fighting is Daredevil's was was definitely way more gritty and and Boxing. Yeah. And it was it was like it hurt.
Jim:Right? Like, watched it and you you felt all those hits and you got tired with Daredevil. With with Iron Fist, I I think the way to do that is you'd it's Bruce Lee. Just make it Bruce Lee. He's it's Just just copy copy Bruce Lee.
Jim:Right? You were doing
T.C.:it when you created the character.
Jim:Yeah. And and like like have him taking out henchmen like it's nothing.
T.C.:I love it. And and and having him be clean and very handsome and smooth, whereas like Daredevil's bleeding and Luke's got it ripping his shirt full of bolt holes off and Jessica's drunk, and there's there's Dan who's just calm, cool, collected.
Jim:Who's just too he was too whiny. Fist. Also copy Bruce Lee in that way when it when when he's and when he's fighting. Mhmm. Just just pure confidence.
T.C.:Just Just think of Daredevil, like, getting there and, like, you feel those blows, and just Danny basically dancing around in the background, wiping guys That's a great juxtaposition between those two.
Jim:And then then what you do, because he's not gonna be this super confident guy, he's he's not outside of combat. That's where he falls apart. That's where he's like, but I learned how to, you know, walk across bamboo and and the Shoots up my walls. So when he has to go confront war his family Mhmm. That's where he becomes super awkward.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Like, no people skills.
Jim:Yeah. But not but not like not like how how it was done. Not like like, he becomes kind of whiny. Mhmm. Don't like like have him be simple.
Jim:Like confused. He's always confused and just like This might be
T.C.:a a What? I don't why? Why is this so hard? You're my family. Why?
T.C.:What's Two things I think would help him.
Jim:I'm just stuttering at this point.
T.C.:Well, one thing, don't think Finn Jones is a capable enough actor. We're talking about how perfectly cast the other three are. I think he's miscast. I don't just don't think he's strong enough. Because when he comes back to New York and he's walking around barefoot, he is simple.
T.C.:But Finn Jones did not portray that. Maybe it was the script, maybe it was his acting ability.
Jim:I heard there was some scheduling stuff, like he was cast, then there were, like, very little training and then it was just let's shoot.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:So there's a there's a comic book writer, Doug Paskowitz, who who always who who does all kinds of blogs and stuff. Mhmm. And when that came out, he blogged about it. And actually, thought he had a really good point. And it's weird.
Jim:It's a it's a weird point to make, I I think, when when it's made, but it kind of serves a purpose. He is the doughiest ultimate living weapon He is,
T.C.:yeah, he's not exactly cut.
Jim:Ant man, right? A retired I didn't even think this. That's the example that that that Doug uses.
T.C.:Retired thief.
Jim:Yeah. Is more jacked. Yeah. That that should not be. That that just should not be the case.
Jim:All Danny Rand has done, even even if we do a story where he cheated to beat the dragon. Yeah. All Danny Rand has done his entire life is train. And eat donuts. Yeah.
T.C.:Well, I I would do what I would do and I'm sorry. Finn Jones, he's probably a very nice guy. I'm not trying to like attack him as
Jim:a I actually think so you get him you get him the ripped six pack, and actually I think a part of it would just be a little bit different direction, and a little bit of coaching to make the character a bit different, and he would probably be okay. He probably would be okay.
T.C.:But I would go so far as to get the mask on so the stunt team can do the fighting for you. Oh, And I would cast him older. He's the youngest of the four. I would have made him older. Like, maybe another ten years on him.
T.C.:To have that he's been gone for, what, fifteen years. His development has been stunted. So having this weird naivety towards very common things he still listens to his old Walkman, which is a great gag in the first season of Iron Fist, that he still likes the music he used to like fifteen years ago.
Jim:It's very Guardians of the Galaxy.
T.C.:Yeah, well, they're definitely trying to capitalize on what was working elsewhere. But there's so much to fix to Iron Fist that I think the focus should be on getting us to defenders. And a lot of it would be with casting, lot of would be with how you achieve his fighting ability and capabilities. I like Colleen Nguyen, I think she's a great character. My pitch for Iron Fist would be that she inherits the fist in the end.
T.C.:Like, that Danny Rand doesn't maintain the Iron Fist mantle that he would even bestow it upon her in his death or in his just decision to not want it anymore or to admit that he never deserved it in the first place. She that's a huge opportunity. Cast an Asian woman to be the Iron Fist would be very progressive of the MCU. And then when you get to the defenders, would have two women and two men.
Jim:So I'll I guess I'll be that guy.
T.C.:Go ahead. Do it.
Jim:Do it. What
T.C.:No. You're not that guy. You're the studio. The studio would ask.
Jim:What reason on what base why should we deviate from the source material that much? Like like, when else have we deviated from the source material that much? That much.
T.C.:Okay. Fair enough. That that is a
Jim:If if you have if you have precedent, I I could I might be able to see it, but
T.C.:I would point to Guardians of the Galaxy. That's not the original team. And that team never even existed in the comics till after James Gunn had put that team together. He selected those six. And I know I'm kind of like, I'm not exactly hitting your point there, but there is precedent to say, you know, stay true to the source material but have some fun.
T.C.:Like, James Gunn was able to go wild with Guardians of the Galaxy. He picked the team members he wanted, and he crafted one of the best parts of the MCU.
Jim:I I think I think the reason for that is because the Marvel probably looked at it, said no one knows who Guardians is.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:This everyone knew at the time like this is this is a total experiment. Right? Right? They expected it to not do well theoretically, right? According to sources.
Jim:And then it was knocked out of the park. I rightly so so like I I know one of the things we've discussed in the past, the way they did their model, any one of these movies could have failed Mhmm. And it wouldn't have sunk the ship. Mhmm. It just so happens Guardians didn't fail, is why space became as incorporated as it was.
T.C.:Tony Stark's not an alcoholic. Most they delved into his alcoholism and his addiction was in Iron Man two, where he was fighting off the infection of his So that's a big deviation from one of Iron Man's most important story elements, is the alcoholism. The demon in the bottle arc that they just kind of glazed over. Civil war unto itself, that's in name only. We got a couple shots that match.
T.C.:So my pitch to the studio in terms of Iron Fist is getting a demographic that isn't being respected in Hollywood to begin with and give an opportunity to say, hey. You can pass this mantle to anyone, anytime. This is the one place in the MCU where you could keep recasting the main character over and over again.
Jim:Is it would it be too pandering Mhmm. If it's not that Danny Rand dies and gives it up or anything, but he has he he has his him and his supporting cast, and because the dragon I think I got an answer for you, but go ahead. Because the dragon is a living thing unto itself, to not not I don't have the the right words for it, but essentially to lend the dragon. Okay.
T.C.:So in
Jim:the end it always goes back to Danny. Mhmm. But he
T.C.:Okay. Yeah. You're kinda playing into Shazam a little bit, which isn't a bad thing because Shazam actually does have quite a some some similarities movie to show. I'm gonna give you this. He's the iron fist, right?
T.C.:I would have him kicking ass with two glowing hands constantly to the point where he gives up half of his ability to Colleen so she can fight side by side with him. And you could have a real cheeky line that says, Well, I am the iron fist after all. Doesn't say there can't be more than one. Right? Because if he had two glowing hands, he'd be the iron fists.
T.C.:That's terrible. That's a good line of dialogue that we can work on in the script. You like it. You like it. You're smiling.
Jim:All I all I know is I I loved in Matt Fraction's run how much the previous Iron Fist, the the the the previous spirits
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Would advise Danny.
T.C.:Oh, that's great.
Jim:I would have loved to somehow see that.
T.C.:More Iron Fists.
Jim:Yeah, we had seen more seasons of it.
T.C.:Well here we go, the Defenders. We have set up this new universe. Now, there's two things we need to discuss. This episode's gonna probably be a little
Jim:bit longer, is Oh, I'm sorry, just with so the thing is, so now we've set up the Iron Fist being this just very capable combatant. The two other things. It's like, well how do you stop him? Where's the challenge? Where's the stakes?
T.C.:Good question.
Jim:I think the way you make that show interesting is the hand is about being sneaky, not about being forceful, not about being even overwhelming. So they try to overwhelm, they make it look like they're trying to overwhelm him, but every time because there's one or two episodes of the show we got, they actually do that. Where where they Just pile on it, The episode that RZA directed.
T.C.:Oh yeah yeah, where he goes basically the tournament style. Where he tournament at the end,
Jim:he has to give up, he has to fail because the hand tricks him. Mhmm. That's what the hand should be doing the whole time. That's how you overcome the iron fist. The iron fist has yet to develop the the cleverness.
Jim:He can he can fight a 100 dudes.
T.C.:He just got the smarts.
Jim:But he but he can't be in two places at once. Well Right? He Yeah. It's that that's that's what you need to do to to challenge that character with that enemy.
T.C.:Mhmm. And if he's a lone wolf kind of style, that makes him really difficult to work with once we get to the Defenders situation. Where he's like, I'm the Iron Fist, I got this. Because then you can have Jessica be like, shut up.
Jim:He said it one
T.C.:more time.
Jim:The other thing that I think is important is so now that we're getting to Defenders, I think it's very important to make him he's crowd control because what they didn't he they made him they they did too they they they leaned too much into, oh, he could do it all. Yeah. But he he shouldn't be able to do it. He just have him be crowd control. Daredevil's the clever one who knows where to put the right punch.
T.C.:Right. Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. So so when the tons of mooks come running down the hall, Danny's like, got this. Don't worry. You
T.C.:guys Bap. Bap. Bap.
Jim:You guys take care of the the rest. Yeah. But between him and him and Luke, they're they're they're taking out the literal army that is trying to fight them while while Daredevil and Jessica are the brains of the operation.
T.C.:I I do think we need a final moment where the four of them are fighting shoulder to shoulder.
Jim:Absolutely. I'm not I'm not I'm not saying that. I just I remember watching Defenders, and it was it was too much of the Danny Rand show.
T.C.:It well, he
Jim:He was like, this is my mission. You guys don't need to come even though you're my friends. And they're like, we're gonna come because we're your friends. And he's like, I don't want you to get hurt. They're like, you can't stop us.
Jim:Let's go. And okay, fine. And then they go. And then I remember that first boardroom, he runs in and he like punches the one person. He's like, did it.
Jim:Whoop! No, no.
T.C.:No. And then he gives up his iron fist. Here's my first thing with the Defenders. If we get these four series, I think the Defenders should be a movie, not a season. Not a season of a show.
T.C.:I think that it should be Or it should be three parts or two parts. It needs to be very contained, very focused. We know who all these characters are now. Let's get to the damn point. And if the damn point is that Hydra and Serpent Society and the Hand have all been moving pieces across the board, and then it turns out the Mandarin is the end all, be all overseer of all this, that they then have to take him out.
T.C.:And I don't want to kill the Mandarin because I don't want him to fully use his 10 rings. I want to save that because we can use that for something bigger and better later.
Jim:So I like these ideas. Okay. I think it probably should be a season.
T.C.:Can it just be seven episodes then? Because 13 is too many.
Jim:What it can be is it can be the amount of episodes it needs to be. Okay. Because honestly, that's something Netflix can do that they haven't. They've stuck to a specific amount even though they don't have to. I don't know if that's they're they're they're thinking about packaging these to to put elsewhere
T.C.:or did see that with the Netflix model that it is financially in their interest to do three seasons of 13 So Santa Clarita Diet and a lot of their Netflix original shows. Like three seasons is financially beneficial to them. Beyond that or less than, I don't quite understand what the math is there. But I think yes, it should be the number of episodes it needs to be. But we don't need any if we're gonna get filler in here,
Jim:don't want What this season is gonna feel like, and and I think it's appropriate that it feels like it, I think this the defenders now, obviously, this we're writing this in hindsight, so we have lots of amazing things available to us because of that. I think this episode or this season feels like Infinity War.
T.C.:This season
Jim:that Infinity War was to Thanos as the defenders is to Mandarin.
T.C.:Yes. Maybe
Jim:in the last episode or two, he's defeated.
T.C.:Right.
Jim:But we build this season. And and the thing is we don't yeah. So the same way season one of Daredevil, at least half that season was dedicated to building Kingpin.
T.C.:Yes. Absolutely.
Jim:We need to build the Mandarin now. Oh,
T.C.:Yes. I'm on board And
Jim:we need and we need to show all of these different groups from the different shows we've been seeing come along and like show and and so the seeds we planted with those organizations Mhmm. It needs to be where those seeds are now blooming, not, oh, you're just now justifying this with this new character.
T.C.:No, like long term, this all set up from the Yeah. Yes. Alright. I liked it.
Jim:And may maybe maybe there were maybe there were hints of of the matter. You know what? I might actually and I I'm pretty sure she was a character from she she is a character in her own right, so making her this might not work. But actually, what if the Mandarin's multiple people? I love the idea that we've seen the Mandarin the whole time.
Jim:Mhmm. In Daredevil, was Madame Gao.
T.C.:Oh, okay. I alright. Then then or that the Mandarin is a title that's passed as opposed to bringing Ben Kinsley back?
Jim:No, no, no. I'm thinking the Mandarin has many faces.
T.C.:Oh, alright. Yeah, I could see Especially if it's planned from the very beginning, from Daredevil season one, the seeds were planted like the Infinity Stones. That they knew from the very beginning that the big reveal of the Mandarin in Defenders was not just gonna be that he's the mastermind behind all this, but that he has been many faces across the MCU, specifically the But to see that he's played some mysterious element in the movies that we don't even have to necessarily make big references to in the reveal, but in his revealing of faces, to have a moment of like, Hey, that was the Wasn't that the face of the UN guy from Civil War?
Jim:What
T.C.:the that was the curator from that Killmonger was talking to in Black Panther, like something like that. I like this idea that he is a man of many faces.
Jim:And
T.C.:I would love to save the actual 10 rings for future installments. Sure don't want him to have the power.
Jim:Yeah. It doesn't even have to be right? Because this whole defenders is leading up, and it's why there's a hole. It's why there's all this stuff. It's all leading towards summoning Fin Fang Foong.
Jim:The dragon.
T.C.:So I get a dragon?
Jim:You get a dragon. At least one.
T.C.:And and Well, there you go.
Jim:Yeah. And that way that way Danny Rand can beat crowd control and also hit a significant monster. Yeah. He can he can punch a dragon.
T.C.:And he
Jim:I've done this before. Boom.
T.C.:So think think boom. Yeah. Okay. He what he's Godzilla. Is that right?
Jim:Yeah. So he's he's he's a dragon. Okay. But he's he's pretty much Marvel's analog. Yeah.
Jim:That's sort of analog for Godzilla.
T.C.:Okay. I don't think he can be that big and fight the defenders without I I have a couple of showing up or Iron Man showing up.
Jim:Sure. Well, okay.
T.C.:Well, they're fighting them underground.
Jim:Well, it's it might start underground. Mhmm. Oh, maybe that's maybe that's actually the key is that he is locked in the underworld. That's why the dragon was dead. Mhmm.
Jim:And that's where the Mandarin is friggin' summoning him from. So they're actually going to to the the the underworld.
T.C.:If if the fight could start underground in Hell's Kitchen
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:But then come out in Harlem or vice versa, start in Harlem. How much?
Jim:So so I got a I got a couple ideas on how to resolve that. Okay. And it might be a little too Deus Ex Machina, but to me, the the one of the one of the bigger concerns is how do you fight something like that when you're four street level
T.C.:dudes. Like, make them smaller, first of all. I'm not talking shrinking them too much, but
Jim:he Like, three stories.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. This still feels a little small to me. He
T.C.:just can't be Godzilla.
Jim:He's getting he's getting bigger.
T.C.:Okay. There we go. I like that.
Jim:Right. So he's he's he's growing. So and so maybe because I didn't want it to just be a big fight where, oh, Fin Fang Foom is he's the size of a a skyscraper. Mhmm. And then the Punch.
Jim:Dragon comes out of Danny Rand. And so now we see the spirit dragon fighting. Yeah. Like, actually, a part of me actually thinks that would be pretty cool. But another but on a TV show, especially one that's trying to be more grounded and
T.C.:We started on the streets.
Jim:We need
T.C.:to end on the streets.
Jim:Okay. I I wanna pitch I wanna pitch the idea anyway. Do it. So Godzilla comes out, and and our heroes punchesize him. Mhmm.
Jim:And they and they defeat him. But somehow so so the reason that this huge epic thing isn't remembered, they they do something. I don't know what the 10 rings powers are. Mhmm. But they somehow in the fight maybe that's what it is.
Jim:While while Iron Fist is fighting Fin Fang Foam
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Daredevil figures out what he needs to do. The manor corners the manor and punches the right ring or something and which which undoes it. So that
T.C.:the dragon just
Jim:Not not just that but like the destruction is undone. People people never saw it happen. A little
T.C.:bit of time stone action here. A little. Doctor Strange kind of ending here.
Jim:Time doesn't necessarily rewind, but repercussion is
T.C.:It's a Men of Black fleshy thing.
Jim:Yeah, something like that. So essentially all of the plans are undone. It's a little Deus Ex Machina, a little to it, but I it's it's a place to start. Right? I think that's a first draft, and now we're gonna have several drafts.
T.C.:Let's let's play with this a little bit. I think Harlem and Hell's Kitchen, Harlem in particular, what Luke Cage did is to they did a lot of what and and rightly so, because of the content of the show, is that they are they are disrespected and forgotten wing of New York City. Who gives a shit about Harlem? Harlem is Harlem. So Harlem has to build itself up.
T.C.:Hell's Kitchen, exists as the shithole of oh, that's something good. Of, of the Marvel Cinematic Universe or the Marvel Universe as well. They got a ton of blowback from the incident. So they're also forgotten. So there are these two Hell's Kitchen was trying to rebuild itself back up.
T.C.:You know, was Fisk, but that's what he was trying to do was
Jim:I just we oh, I can't believe we we reframed the I forgot the the it wasn't the incident. That's from the Arrow version.
T.C.:Oh.
Jim:But that's essentially what the entire plot was. Fisk was buying up property to give to Sigourney Weaver so that they could destroy all of that land Mhmm. To well, Fisk wanted to rebuild it up to gentrify it.
T.C.:But Madame Gal wanted it.
Jim:Wanted to to, like
T.C.:Crush it.
Jim:Yeah. And that's essentially what they're doing. They're buying it up because they know Fin Fang Vu is gonna come through here.
T.C.:Well, if if it's so then it becomes Luke Cage and Daredevil were all about protect their neighborhood. So if we start this fight far below in that deep, deep, deep, deep, dark hole, and if that's in Hell's Kitchen and then it comes out in Harlem, or like I said vice versa, then these characters are protecting the streets that we started on with them. And I do like the idea of shrinking Fing Fang Foom down, but instead of like flashy thing getting rid of people's acknowledgment of him, Just don't have it be have it at night, have it be in a more or less, maybe the secluded location that Fisk was able to corner off.
Jim:Cloverfield it?
T.C.:A little bit. So then it becomes an urban legend of this area of the MCU, where it's like
Jim:And and why not why not have shields show up at the end to clean it up? Yeah. Dam damage control.
T.C.:Exactly. And if you want some sort of, like, acknowledgement from someone like a Tony Stark or someone like a William Hurt from from, oh, you're shaking your hands.
Jim:I am. I'm I'm
T.C.:You could have them say something like, if a dragon came out of New York City, I think we would have noticed. Like, having a very, like, we don't come on. Let don't be ridiculous. Like, even they are like, okay. Yeah.
T.C.:That happened. Not acknowledging the lower level of the MCU. What's your
Jim:handwriting on side? Think that this is the place where Phil Coulson can show up. Yes. The cleanup of a dragon. Phil Coulson would show up for that.
Jim:And I don't I don't think it would be too out of place. I I
T.C.:This is a big enough deal that Coulson himself is gonna show up.
Jim:I would I would love to see that.
T.C.:Thank you. I love it. Yes, please. But here's another thing I'll say though, like, get that dragon down to If Danny's going against the dragon and Luke and Jessica are tossing punches too and Daredevil's going up against the Mandarin.
Jim:So the dragon's growing. Yeah. Mandarin the Mandarin is channeling its powers into manifesting Fin Fang Foon. Yeah. And it's growing.
Jim:And the the three of them are fight the Jessica Luke and and Iron Fist are fighting Fin Fang Foon and is getting bigger fighting this growing lizard that sucks and Daredevil is fighting the Mandarin His fight, the the Mandarin more and more powerful, don't know what the turn would be, something turns in the fight. So now Daredevil's figured out whatever he has to do when he hits the Mandarin
T.C.:It hurts the dragon.
Jim:It not just hurts it, it shrinks it back down. So that way we're not getting to it. He's continuing to try to put his energy.
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:Maybe that's just what it is is Daredevil's now distracting him so much that Mandarin can no longer channel the energy into it and so that that's slowing the growth.
T.C.:Love it. Can I give one more little turn in here so that our heroes can all fight together? The Mandarin could finally just relent and give up and just suck all the energy from the dragon into himself, so now all four characters have to fight the Mandarin. I'm not saying he's as powerful as Fing Fang Foong was, but if he just finally, like, Daredevil beats him to a oh, to a where he's like, ah, and he just they get the last thing and the dragon's energy flies back in the Mandarin, now he's like, I'm pissed now. Yeah.
T.C.:And now all four of them have to and so Daredevil's like, oh, man, you're way more powerful than you are. And then here come Luke, Jessica, and Dany to fight alongside Matt and, like, hey, we got your back. And now the four of them go after him and get that boom, boom, boom, boom. They're all coming at him from different angles. What kind
Jim:of powers can we get in Mandarin? Mandarin could be, like, he could split himself into a bunch of mandarins that they then have to pop?
T.C.:Could pull his Mandarin M off his chest and throw it like cellophane at Luke.
Jim:He could spin around the world real fast? No, no, no, no. But
T.C.:but to get that
Jim:effing at him.
T.C.:To get to that final moment of the four of them.
Jim:Because I've trapped you all on an album cover.
T.C.:I love this idea. I love this idea of the three over here fighting the dragon and Matt fighting the Mandarin because I think in this area of the Marvel Knights, Matt is your Iron Man. Matt is your Yeah. Essential main essentially your main character of this team.
Jim:Yes. Agree.
T.C.:100%. And and I'll yes. Like, that's that's the fight I wanna see. Now how do I segue out of this into the next thing? That was it.
Jim:Oh, that was your oh, I see.
T.C.:This is better. This is better.
Jim:Now I think I think with the second half, I think we had too much fun crafting the defenders and stuff. I don't think we did much. There at the end, you you mentioned how it would work into the movies and
T.C.:stuff, but we
Jim:we didn't put as much connection in.
T.C.:Well, that's that's what I wanna actually go delve into now because I I don't think we need to continue to, like, get into the nitty gritty details of how these series would lead into the Defenders. I think we've laid enough foundation that we're someone to come to us and say, Hey, I got a time machine that we can go redo this. You want to come Yes, we got all the ideas right here. I wanna talk MCU now. How do we get these characters into the MCU?
T.C.:I've already explained how Agents of S. E. D. Could have been in fricking Age of Ultron and in Spider Man Homecoming.
Jim:So we do that, done.
T.C.:Okay. I've already said that Sam Rockwell's hammer should have been the secondary bad
Jim:guy in So you're just talking about more connectivity across all of it or between the movies and the Specifically,
T.C.:Daredevil, Luke, Jessica, and Iron Fist, how do we get them in the films now?
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:How do we get their references in? Because, perfect example, Infinity War. Is this everyone? No. What did you want more?
Jim:That's Endgame.
T.C.:Endgame, sorry. What did you want more? Open up some portals and have those characters walk
Jim:out. Well, yeah, what I think should have happened there So yes, that would have been a great place to put them. Frankly, there should have been more people. Have put people in costumes we've never seen.
T.C.:Wolverine walks out. No X Men.
Jim:No X Men. No you'd recognize from like that, but like give me and now I can't think of anyone.
T.C.:Nomad or Hercules. Oh yeah, yeah.
Jim:Give me Nomad. What a weird reference to pull. Honestly, Ghost Rider. Dude with a flaming head? What's
T.C.:this? This guy?
Jim:I don't know, it's a hero guy who wants to fight to have the universe not be destroyed.
T.C.:Don't ask questions. They brought Howard the duck in. Why couldn't they bring in, you know, everyone else? Yeah. Was was Howard there?
T.C.:Howard the duck is there.
Jim:I missed that.
T.C.:Well, it's a very you have to go online to see
Jim:the
T.C.:screen
Jim:grab of Well, even even more so because he was there. Just bring him bring him.
T.C.:Bring him all
Jim:Bring him all in.
T.C.:It's guy to come in.
Jim:Yes. I I really wanna think of some more obscure Sleepwalkers. Bring Sleepwalker in. Having having that Darkhawk. I'm just naming my my friend's favorite.
Jim:The Night Warriors. Or not New Warriors. Sneadball.
T.C.:Yeah. Night what
Jim:was his name? Night Thrasher.
T.C.:Night Thrasher. Nova. Yes. Get John C. Reilly in a Nova That's
Jim:gotta be Guardians three, right? Because they laid all the groundwork for the Nova Corps and then they've done nothing with Nova. Well
T.C.:Thanos destroyed the planet to get the first gem. But hey, they had to rebuild.
Jim:But Is that really loud? I apologize if that was really loud. No, it
T.C.:was fine. I adjusted real No, you're fine. But seeing let's okay, Daredevil in particular, I think the connector here could be Fisk. Because Fisk could finally just be fed up with Matt and just move to Manhattan and deal with Spider Man. And then you can have some sort of because Spider Man as we're perceiving it now, so as of this recording, Far From Home has not come out yet.
T.C.:It would appear that Tony that Peter might be looking for a new mentor of sorts. Right? So why not look to the guy who's in a pseudo Iron Man Doctor Strange costume? Another adult figure who might be a potential mentor for him. So Daredevil could potentially be a mentor in another capacity for him to I don't know if I want to see Daredevil be a full on secondary character in a Spider Man movie, but I don't know.
T.C.:I having some sort of relationship with Dean, those
Jim:guys I kinda do. Like I I kinda wanna see him be so how how well do you know the good, bad, and the ugly? Good. Yeah. Bad.
Jim:In in in my I love that. I love that. Ugly. Go do it. Do them.
Jim:Get them all out there. I love that movie. Yeah. In my opinion, Tuco Mhmm. Is the main character of that movie.
Jim:And Clint Eastwood's character, Blondie
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Is kind of the the the sidekick. Okay. Because he's kind of following along Tuchel's bum bum bumbling through the
T.C.:His bumbling quest. Yeah.
Jim:And and I think that's that's how I would making up a whole new movie now. Well, that That's how I would do a Spider Man Daredevil movie. Spider Man stumbles on this thing, and he's there's this plot, and he's he's trying to unravel it. Mhmm. And Daredevil keeps showing up.
Jim:Who's
T.C.:I would love this.
Jim:What's up? Well Hey,
T.C.:red guy.
Jim:Yeah. Don't even know what's
T.C.:I don't even what's what's your name?
Jim:I don't I don't even know what Peter Parker called Daredevil.
T.C.:Hey. Hey, horns. What what is what's what's going on? Can I help? Can I help?
Jim:Like, I
T.C.:have power. And he's like,
Jim:and I'm and I'm then he disappears.
T.C.:And he's where'd that guy go? He's like a red ninja. And there's something to be had there because I I think Peter and Doctor Strange is a great relationship in the comics. I like Spider Man and Daredevil relationships as well because they have so many similarities and so many differences at the same time. They're both these you know, they come from the Lower end of New York and they're on the street, they're just trying to protect their neighborhoods, one's got fantastical spider powers, and one is a blind man who can see, right?
T.C.:A ninja. I think there's and again, to draw from the Ultimate Universe, which MCU has drawn a ton from, as we've already said, there's a great mini run of a Daredevil Spider Man crossover that they could play with, that this is like, Dude, who are you? You're dark. Like, this is You know, sometimes you gotta be dark. He's the closest thing they got to Batman.
T.C.:Don't say Moon Knight and don't say Black Panther. They're not like Batman. Oh, we're gonna fight on this?
Jim:Yeah, we are. No.
T.C.:Yep. This is an off mic conversation. I hate that people think Moon Knight is the Batman equivalent in the MCU. He's not. He's got voices in his head.
T.C.:Whatever. Why am I talking about this? Daredevil.
Jim:Moon Knight's cool, and we should have a Moon Knight.
T.C.:Okay. I'm not gonna disagree with that, because Matt Fraction did a really good run on Moon Knight. So I think that Daredevil to Spider Man and Fisk, that's an access point there. I think Jessica
Jim:I think we're not doing a good job of plugging in what already exists. We're kind of inventing We're inventing whole new stories.
T.C.:How can we get them into what exists? I did say the Endgame reference, I think, in Infinity War as well, just getting a glimpse of the snappening across queens, like to watch Foggy disappear, something like that. Goal here would be that the Netflix shows would be so well regarded that maybe someone in the audience might not recognize the characters as they're disappearing, but there'd be enough of a support of like, oh, it was cool when the snap happened to see Hogarth disappear.
Jim:Why show us random extras disappearing when you can show us people we know. People we might know.
T.C.:How do we get them into existing properties? That's a little tougher there. Luke being Jessica or Luke and or Luke being a bodyguard to Tony Stark or, Danny Rand leading Doctor Strange.
Jim:The gun dealer from the Defenders world, from from Marvel Knights, is one of the guys at in in Homecoming. Mhmm. He's one of the guys getting sold weapon. He's he's buying weapons from someone to
T.C.:sell There
Jim:he goes.
T.C.:To someone else. There he that's an easier connection than trying to force in in the directly into seeing Claire Temple at the hospital that Doctor Strange works There
Jim:you go.
T.C.:Something like that. To have Luke's photo be in the football display of some some regarding no. I guess Peter's school is a a private school, so that won't work.
Jim:Also well, yeah. Right. It would it would relocate Luke to a different
T.C.:Right. And maybe he the Harlem team went up against no. Because again, it's a private nerd school, didn't have sports. Nevermind, nevermind. Unfortunately, don't think there are easy access points for these characters without making up something whole hog.
Jim:Well, Shield, I think, did it really well. I mean, they they obviously they tried to get movie guest appearances when they could. Mhmm. But Shield did a really good job of their they had episodes. Actually, I feel like all their their arcs, their seasonal arcs or half season arcs were usually thematically tied into whatever next movie was gonna be coming out.
T.C.:Right. Like, the space season was more More about? Infinity War. Right? Or no.
T.C.:Ragnarok.
Jim:Space was Guardians of the Galaxy and Ragnarok. Yeah. But Ghost Rider was before Doctor Strange, but it was in tandem. They're like that whole seasonal arc, the whole introducing magic
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Was in tandem with Doctor Strange coming out.
T.C.:Yeah. So I guess with instead like, there's no real way to, like, get these characters in to be delivering lines or whatnot. I think that Agents of S. L. D.
T.C.:Has very easy ways that they totally missed. Yeah. But as far as getting Daredevil, Luke, Jessica, and Danny
Jim:in the films Civil I'm sure there's somewhere you could have fit in, like a quick cameo. Not necessarily the airport, but like
T.C.:Oh, no, no, there was a backup plan. There was a plan B if they couldn't seal the deal with Sony.
Jim:Oh yeah?
T.C.:At least rumor has it, this is all could just be hearsay, that the backup plan instead of getting Spider Man was to get Daredevil. And that would be a very different scenario because Spider Man adds so much, no pun intended, color to that sequence.
Jim:I yes. I don't think Daredevil would've joined that side.
T.C.:I
Jim:I I know he's a lawyer. Yeah. But but I don't think he would've joined side.
T.C.:Tony would have convinced him. But maybe not, I don't know, that's rumor of course. But, yeah, I don't think with what we got there's a way to plug it. I'm curious to see if anyone listening is like, Oh, so and so could have been perfectly placed right here. I think more of what we've done creating the the groundwork of the sin of the Marvel Knights Netflix wing, could be utilized in phase four, where it's like, what we have now in terms of the MCU, I don't really see spots where you could fit plug any of these characters in organically.
Jim:So you're you're talking about the movies that are coming up?
T.C.:The the yeah. Phase four.
Jim:As of the recording of this
T.C.:Post post Endgame. Post Endgame.
Jim:Post Endgame. But that also that also depends on our redoing of Marvel Knights continuing and not being stopped the way it has been.
T.C.:Well, yes. It would be so good that Disney would love our It really would. It would. Would. Say, you know what Netflix?
Jim:I don't really wanna watch our Iron Fist. We're done. No. Either one. That sounds bad.
Jim:That's a bad sentence right there. That sounds like it means something else.
T.C.:Well, I I I don't want to belabor the point here, but is there any other final thoughts you might have before we go off mic and continue to talk about this for another hour? Which as we are won't to do.
Jim:Got that change in. Got got all them changes in. I sure like comic books.
T.C.:There's some The Marvel Cinematic Universe has been such a success, and I love Endgame. I love how they concluded things. I loved how they certainly I could sit here and start getting pedantic about, Oh, this and this. We had dinner where that was pretty much what we did. But little disappointments have occurred with how unwilling they are to connect all these properties.
T.C.:Because they are loosely connected by some threads, Agents of S. D. More so, the Netflix stuff is very throwaway. I would love to see I would love to have seen them embrace the movies more into Netflix, and therefore allowing the Netflix stuff to come into the movies.
Jim:Honestly, can I I think what's kind of happening with the TV shows is indicative of why they were reluctant to do so? If you had incorporated them into the movies more, and then the shows get canceled as they have been, what happens? Do you just drop these references? Do you continue to keep these actors as the characters?
T.C.:Is as simple as Stephen Strange getting a name drop in Winter Soldier. Like, something as simple as that. You know, Tony Stark talking to Pepper and her having to say, Don't forget, have a meeting with Rand Industries at 03:00 today, and the newspaper had wanted know if you want a quote about Fisk. No, I don't care about that. Simple as that.
T.C.:Like little throwaway lines like that. Sure. Would would have been lovely. I would have loved that. But I am curious to hear what the listeners might have to say about what we've concocted here.
T.C.:This was a little bit of a different experiment as opposed to some of our past episodes where we were specifically looking at, like, a singular film. This is much more of broad strokes, retconning, fixing and tweaking of multiple properties that were all one big property. But I do think that you got it great with linking in Hydra and the Mandarin and the If they had thought about that from the get go way more thoroughly, there would have been an amazing thing to happen there. I will I I think you that's
Jim:it it it's a it's a beautiful parallel to to what they did in the movies as well. Like like the way S. L. D. Keeps doing thematic parallels to to the to the the movies.
Jim:Yeah. You do Marvel Knights. You you have this parallel. The movies are building up to Thanos. The these TV shows are building up to the Mandarin.
Jim:Mhmm. And you can they're yep.
T.C.:It's it's the MCU literally create a formula that they can't even re replicate. That's that's what it is. Okay, so let's do the social stuff real quick. You can find us at studiodemandsit.com. Please spread the word, like, share, subscribe, that's awesome for us.
T.C.:You can actually now go to studiodemandsit.com where you can send us a demand. You, you can actually come up with the your demand as well as your fake studio title. We'd love
Jim:to get more of It's to let us know what your studio name is.
T.C.:So we know who gets all the credit for the demands that were made. You can also find us on Twitter at studiodemandsit. If you wanna make a request there as well, you can toss it, there. So, yeah, like, subscribe, share, Apple Podcast, Google Play. A huge shout out to Six Five Media for giving us this platform.
T.C.:Thank you so much, Reed.
Jim:Thank you very much.
T.C.:Yes. This is so much fun. We told one of our listeners today, we'd be doing this whether people are listening or not.
Jim:Yes, we would.
T.C.:So it's nice to know we have an audience out there. So thank you all for listening to us and letting us play with our imagination like this.
Jim:Thank you very much.
T.C.:Jim, where can people find you?
Jim:On Twitter, tubakwaxon. Yes.
T.C.:You never tweet, but if
Jim:people tweet it you. I probably wouldn't see them because I don't log on enough. Someday someday I'll figure it out. I'm finally getting the hang of Discord. That's a thing.
Jim:You heard No. Have you heard of that?
T.C.:I have not.
Jim:Oh, well, I'll I maybe I'll show it to you. I will. But otherwise, I guess I can be found on at
T.C.:Face
Jim:Facebook? Yeah. James Bergelick dot com. That's you. I'm a little bit reclusive, but, you know, maybe I'll be friendly.
Jim:Who knows?
T.C.:People ask you the right put the right quarter
Jim:in you and ask you the right question, you're gonna go
T.C.:to town.
Jim:It's true.
T.C.:You can find me at t c's big t c's big head on Twitter and Instagram as well. So there it goes. That's it. That's an episode.
Jim:I need to get an Instagram. I hear those things are I don't take pictures. Is there anything you can put on Instagram that aren't pictures?
T.C.:You you can put blocks of text as a photo,
Jim:I guess. So LiveJournal?
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be back again with another challenge to improve the world of cinema or streaming service as well.
Jim:And We're we're expanding our media. At the beginning, I thought you were gonna hit you were gonna have us write some novels.
T.C.:Was I was not Studio demands a book.
Jim:I don't know why I thought that.
T.C.:Yes. Now you know we can do a Golden Girls free cast episode. I am TC.
Jim:I'm Jim.
T.C.:And that's that's it. That's the end of the episode. K. Bye.