Hello, and welcome to the studio an exercise in creative thinking where we will challenge ourselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. I am TC DeWitt, and joining me as always is my cohost, Timothy James Berzelik, but it's not a c at the end your name. This time, it's an x. So you're extreme. Hey, Jim.
Jim:Extreme.
T.C.:Alright. What are we doing here? We talk movies all the time, and in particularly in particular, we like to complain like good nerds do about the choices that blockbusters make, and we very much think we could do a better job given the opportunity. So that's what we're gonna do here. We're gonna throw out a a demand of a studio, the restrictions that were clearly placed on a property or would be placed on a property and, go from there as a creative exercise.
T.C.:We're both filmmakers. We both have our backgrounds in in writing and filmmaking. And so we we we know what we're talking about.
Jim:We do.
T.C.:Yeah. Hello, Jim. Hello, TC. Good to be back. It is.
T.C.:Yeah. Hey.
Jim:It's been been a while.
T.C.:It has been a while. It it hasn't. But it's we will just
Jim:You know?
T.C.:It's at least been
Jim:a is is an indeterminate amount of time.
T.C.:It's true. It's true. But what it's like when someone says a couple versus a few. Like, I hear couple, I hear two. Yep.
T.C.:Right? But if you say couple and hand me four things and be like, hold on, man. We have a problem.
Jim:This is yeah.
T.C.:You've you've misused this word.
Jim:It's true.
T.C.:Yeah. You know what's another word that's not used enough? Thrice. Once, twice, thrice. Like, thrice.
Jim:True. Yeah. Good work.
T.C.:Good news.
Jim:It is it is a good word.
T.C.:How are feeling about last, last week's episode? So we It was
Jim:it was a good time.
T.C.:Yeah. Cannonball Run was last week. If you those listening haven't gone back and take a listen to it.
Jim:Went better than I expected.
T.C.:It did. And some fun feedback on that one if you hit up the comment section and maybe maybe venture over to Twitter.
Jim:Yeah. Maybe I should pay attention to these things.
T.C.:But yeah. So thanks for for those who listen to that, and welcome back for more. This week, it's my turn. I am the studio this week. I'm the one who's gonna be throwing at you.
T.C.:So so we have our our ridiculously long pile of concepts, studio properties, and we're I randomly select the one for today. I actually had two, and I could not figure out which one I was wanna do because I know you're gonna have ideas for both. I
Jim:trust you.
T.C.:You do you will. Yep. You will. But, yeah, before before we jump into what's new. How are doing?
T.C.:Yep. How are things?
Jim:Oh, you know?
T.C.:Yep. Yep. Anything?
Jim:Man, I've been been having a good time. I I honestly, I haven't really done much since the last episode.
T.C.:It's like you never left.
Jim:Oh, yeah. I did. I got a Twitter account, which I'm still having I'm still having trouble with.
T.C.:I think
Jim:I have a Star Wars name as my as my default assigned handle.
T.C.:To to be fair here, it's not a Star Wars name that
Jim:you It's not one you know.
T.C.:It's not, you know, Ben Kenobi here.
Jim:Yeah. No. It's it's not Wedge Antilles.
T.C.:Now you say it's a Star Wars handle. Was it randomly assigned, and it sounds like a Star Wars handle?
Jim:Yes. That is that is that is what it is. What
T.C.:let's let's I was gonna say this for the
Jim:end when we Oh, we we can do this. No. No. I wanna hear No. Yeah.
Jim:I think I think that will be the reward. That will be the reward for at the end. You'll find out you'll find out what my Twitter handle is, what my Twitter name is, and I'll it'll probably be different by time you're listening to this, but that's what it is as of right now.
T.C.:Or as of right now. Okay. Alright. Then then you
Jim:So we started the episode by dating it with when my Twitter handle was a different thing.
T.C.:Well, I am I am interested to see where we go on this one. I did decide between the two I was gonna pick. I I have picked the one. This is a concept that we have discussed in some capacity before based on some frustrations. And now as this show has been built upon, it is the frustrations of something that was done annoyingly so that we feel we could have done better.
T.C.:I'm I'm trying to think if
Jim:we Not narrowing it down.
T.C.:No. That's fine. I'm getting there. I'm doing broad strokes here to just preface this in that part part of the fun of this podcast is just the general conversations we have anyway Yeah. Where, hey.
T.C.:Did you see the new movie? I did see the new movie. Why didn't they do this in the new movie?
Jim:Why did they do that? I watched that movie.
T.C.:Much like our Star Trek in the darkness concept that's Yeah. That kicked off the whole premise of this series. So I'm gonna take you back, Jim. Two thousand twelve.
Jim:Woah. Okay. Hang on. I gotta rewind.
T.C.:Yeah. Where were you
Jim:in February? Alright. I'm in 2016.
T.C.:There was still the Obama
Jim:era. Yeah.
T.C.:'14. You're going k. Here. Tick tick tick.
Jim:Okay. Okay.
T.C.:I'm there.
Jim:Speed it
T.C.:up here, h g Wells. Okay. Okay. So 02/2013, coming off the success of a very massive franchise, Disney and Jerry Brockheimer Productions decided to delve into another genre. Uh-oh.
T.C.:You're smiling. You know where we're going here. Right? Gore Verbinski, having directed a very successful Pirates of Caribbean franchise Yep. Is given another genre property.
T.C.:We he he successfully revived the swords and sales Mhmm. Genre. Yep. Only to that capacity. We'll we'll do pirates of The Caribbean in another day.
Jim:Oh, there's a twist. I thought that's where we were going.
T.C.:We are not going to the pirates of the Caribbean franchise because we're we're doing another genre that was attempted to to another franchise
Jim:that was attempted to get
T.C.:and it's and it is the cowboy western. Uh-huh. In in particular Uh-huh. The Lone Ranger.
Jim:Uh-huh.
T.C.:The studio demands that you give us another Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. That you give us the Lone Ranger as a trilogy franchise. And I am putting this upon you, Johnny Depp has to be involved in this movie.
Jim:Argh. Yeah. Okay.
T.C.:That is the studio demand. It comes straight from mister Brockheimer himself, straight from the mouse. You have the Lone Ranger franchise. You have to revive that into a trilogy, and Johnny Depp has to be involved.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Jim Berzelik, the studio demands it. Where are we going here?
Jim:Wow. Okay. So You've discussed this before because
T.C.:you kinda have a you're okay with what the Lone Ranger
Jim:I'd liked I liked a whole bunch of there there's a there's a few things that Armie Hammer was honestly probably a really good cast. Mhmm. But something about it just kind of falls flat. I
T.C.:I've talked about this before in previous shows. It's something that I discuss frequently with fellow collaborators and writers. Oftentimes, what I feel causes a movie to suffer is a tonal inconsistency. And the Gorbobinski, the 2,013 Lone Ranger, did not know what it wanted to be. You can't have a guy literally eating hearts out of people's chests and then have the slapstick of like, oh, oh, bang.
T.C.:Boom. I shot a cow.
Jim:Like So I understand how and why they went there. I'd I'd I'm I'm of two minds of this. Mhmm. Because I think you can. I think that's what they got with Pirates of the Caribbean.
Jim:Well, I They were a a crew, a cutthroat crew of pirates who were undead. Right? They like, the literal walking dead skeletons and and flesh falling off their bodies. Mhmm. Super scary, ghosty bad guys.
Jim:And right. So so that that's the the the eating hearts right out of people Right. But type thing.
T.C.:The Caribbean never delved into a truly horrific arena. There was still a family fun to the pirate. The first Pirates of Caribbean in particular, I think is one of the greatest action adventure movies of the past fifteen, twenty years. I I I think it's an amazing film, and it and they could have done so much more with it. Again, we'll do a Pirates of the Caribbean some of the time.
T.C.:With with Lone Ranger, they didn't walk that line well. It was really inconsistent this and then that. Yeah. And how do you resolve that? Like, where do you go with this?
T.C.:Now one part of me wants to say that we I'm I want you to somehow conceptualize a Disney, Jerry Brockheimer, Gord Verbinski, Johnny Depp starring Lone Ranger. Right? With all the stipulations that they had on the table that got us to where we are. Another part of me thinks it would be way better to do the lone ranger as a middle budget movie and just go weird west and to go to a dark place.
Jim:I'd see, my big contention is there's a whole other IP that I Yeah. That's very close to my heart that I wanna that I wanna do. So Maybe we where I have a real tough time with this. But I'll for the sake of it, we'll just not we'll not address that. We will go.
T.C.:Do Lone Ranger. I will
Jim:I will we we can do this. I can I can do this? We can I'm a big boy. I can do this.
T.C.:Maybe we can play in the weird West later. Okay. But for now, we have to figure out a way to To make Lone Ranger. Lightning of the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. I'm gonna throw this out right away, how I think I would fix this.
T.C.:Okay? Just just okay. We the studio demands Johnny Depp be involved. Don't make him Tato. Make him Reid.
T.C.:Just make him the Lone Ranger. Okay? I know he's in his forties, and how are you gonna milk a franchise out of him? But they've already done that for twenty years with freaking Pirates of the Caribbean. Right?
T.C.:So I don't make him Tonto. Just if you want him to be the star of this damn movie, just make him the Lone Ranger. Why not?
Jim:I think I actually thought he was an okay tanto.
T.C.:Right. But you're delving into some, like, very there's some insensitivities of the Native American people and okay. Fine.
Jim:Well If if you wanna make Right. I'm maybe this I I could be totally wrong with this. I thought the whole point was he wanted to, albeit in a comedic fashion, wanted to kind of not not an honor. That's not the right word. But but because apparently Johnny Depp has some ancestry
T.C.:He's like one sixty fourth Cherokee or something like that. It's a joke. It really was like an excuse just to put him in another weird role.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:I'm saying let him be weird as John Reed. The whole concept of this is to like, I don't know. But maybe that doesn't work. I'm not, sell I'm trying to throw that out
Jim:as
T.C.:a possibility to solve some of the problems that I see in in the existing loan.
Jim:Sure. So I think the the problem with that fix
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Is you go back kinda to to what you just said, bit bit old, a bit too old to pilot a whole new franchise. Okay. Because you're wanting you're want again, you're wanting three pictures, a minimum three pictures out of this. Mhmm. Johnny Depp.
Jim:I feel really bad saying it, but even even earlier tonight, we were talking about the the Harry Potter spin off. And I was like, ah, he's I saw that, and I was kinda drawn out. And and I right. Because I feel that because Johnny Depp has has done decent work. I'd the the Pirates of the Caribbean stuff, it's gotten more and more cartoonish.
Jim:I have I have issues there as well, but definitely that first one, Oh, that that's masterwork.
T.C.:Yeah. He was freaking nominated for was he nominated for an Academy Award for this?
Jim:I don't know.
T.C.:Well
Jim:Let let's pretend he was. Oh my god. He was nominated for an Academy Award. Okay. So, you know, first, I think we need to cut off the bookends.
T.C.:Mhmm. Oh, the flashbacks.
Jim:The the movie was told as flashback.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:Yeah. It started with
T.C.:That's right. Right. Right. Yeah.
Jim:Started with a little boy going through a museum Mhmm. In in of that period of the early twentieth century, late late nineteenth century. Tonto was it was supposed oh, he's a wax statue. And, oh, no. He's a person.
Jim:Oh, that's weird and creepy. And this little kid's gonna stop and listen to what this creepy old man
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Has to say.
T.C.:And then let me tell the story.
Jim:Yeah. And then he tells the story. And not saying that stories like that can't be told, but I always have a problem really kinda getting drawn like, okay. So this is I I don't feel connected to this story happening because this story happened.
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:Like, what's gonna happen now? Where's disagree.
T.C.:The stakes Yeah. Don't Where's
Jim:where's the now stakes?
T.C.:It's a it's a crutch it's a crutch to the storytelling. It's a it's hand holding to the audience. It's unnecessary to be like, hello. Here's a I'm gonna tell you a story. Now sit down once upon a time, and then start the movie.
T.C.:Mhmm. Just start the movie. Or Mhmm. We're literally coming to a theater to watch a film. I don't wanna come to a theater to watch a person recount a story.
T.C.:And not to say that like storytelling, that convention can't work, but I think that's you're right. Like, that right off the front and let's just dive into this. Yeah. Like, Pirates of the Caribbean doesn't start with a book opening up. Right?
T.C.:It's it gets right into the mix of things. Thrust us into this world. It was and sorry. Just a quick little tangy question. Johnny Depp was nominated for best actor in a leading role at the Oscars in 02/2004 for Jack Sparrow.
T.C.:That's how definitive that role is for you. That's incredible.
Jim:Yeah. It was it was amazing.
T.C.:Okay. So I'll I will I will admit that there are parts of Lone Ranger I like as well. And I do think Johnny Depp does a a pretty decent job, as Tonto. Mhmm. I think that the third act, train sequence is quite quite phenomenal in terms of action set pieces with a lot of practical effects, a lot of gunplay, a lot of a lot of fun camera work.
T.C.:It's when the the theme song kicks in for the next five minutes. You get the William Tell overture. So do I is that it? Yeah.
Jim:Think yeah.
T.C.:But army hammer isn't that it's he's just one of those, like, oh, he's the it guy now.
Jim:Yeah. I really wanted I really wanted to like him. I wanted it to be definitive and iconic, and it just Mhmm. It just wasn't. And I and I'm I'm not sure why.
Jim:So I I think one of the ways I would tell the story differently Mhmm. Is I know we the story tried to estrange us from his brother who gets killed, then he ends up in the role of
T.C.:He he's supposed to be played by James Badge Dale who shows up all the time. It's like, oh, there he is again. It's that guy. And he's like, he's the one who should be the hero, and he's killed off in his heart.
Jim:And if anything, that's why Armie Hammer didn't work because that actually, I think, would be a more compelling story if you have the very iconic chiseled jawed hero of someone like army hammer be the one who goes down and someone ill fitted has to become the lone ranger.
T.C.:Yeah. It's like so the unlikely hero. Yeah. The Luke Skywalker in a sense of or I mean, even I
Jim:mean, granted, it was really cool like, I actually really like how they brought him back from the dead and and how like, the impact that had on the villains and the just the the idea of that I thought was really cool. Mhmm. Maybe there'd be a way to to to save that as well. But but, yeah, I think the the unlikely hero, not necessarily that I'd wanna cast him as, but, like, someone like Zachary Levi. So Right.
T.C.:Be I I think he would make Chuck.
Jim:Yeah. He would make a decent unlikely hero. You you put you put a mask on him, and he starts he's kinda fits that cutting a figure.
T.C.:Yeah. Certainly now
Jim:he's silhouette type thing.
T.C.:Shazam. So he's he's Captain Marlowe now, and he's he has Superman look about him. But you're right. He's he is someone who, at first blushes, like, it's the nerd herd. It's the geek that's forced into it.
T.C.:And I think that's what army hammer's John Reed is supposed to be, but he's still freaking army hammer and he's got his chiseled jawline on it. Yeah. So it didn't quite work.
Jim:It's it's that or you have to you have to do more of what, you know, what Briscoe County Junior did.
T.C.:Go back to Briscoe County Junior one.
Jim:Bruce Bruce Campbell definitely had the chiseled jaw. Alright. And and he was sort of that he he had that he struck that figure, but then and maybe you needed a whole show to to have it play out. He came from an educated background, so he was also sort of unlikely in that as a bounty hunter, he he he had surprises. Mhmm.
Jim:He didn't he wasn't just, I'm a gunslinger, and it's done. Yeah. And and so that show played upon that. That that show was very much about not entirely undermining archetypes and and and stereotypes. Mhmm.
Jim:But it did it did work with that, and I think taking taking a page from that and trying to use that here, think, is the way to go.
T.C.:Mhmm. Another thing that this movie fails at is the the overall look and palette of the film. I think it it looks like a classic Western. Mhmm. But that's problematic in that it's so washed out and dull looking that I think subconsciously that makes it a less interesting movie to watch.
T.C.:If you look at the Pirates of the Caribbean, it's set in the crystal clear blue waters of the of the of the Caribbean Mhmm. And beautiful islands with palm trees and all these colorful characters living in colorful environments. To to have the Lone Ranger in this dusty South when it could look more like the like the Santa Fe Southwest orange, red, yellow, like
Jim:Oh, I see.
T.C.:That that that palette of the western is way more interesting visually than the very washed out look that they gave the whole thing, almost verging into a black and white film level of washed out. I think that hurt the movie as well aesthetically that you you can have the the red sands. Right? Yeah. Santa Fe, of the the plateaus and the green cactus.
T.C.:And, like, there's a way to make it a much more visually interesting movie. I think they feel there.
Jim:Okay. That that's that's I'm I'm willing I'm willing to go there. I I like I like me I'm a washed out westerns.
T.C.:Well I I you can still have those the washed out appeal to it, especially in concerns to who plays the bad guy. It's it's you guys know you're messing with. You're dead. It's the guy from Dark Knight. He's a Finch Finch he's in prison break.
T.C.:Gosh. Darn it. He's a great bad guy. He's a great actor, and I think if
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. I know who you're talking about. I love that guy.
T.C.:But in his scenes in planes
Jim:He was he was the sheriff in invasion. It's
T.C.:Everyone should yelling us
Jim:or that.
T.C.:Just Google it. Yeah. So okay. So, really, I'm I'm spending a lot of time here just criticizing the existing film as opposed to fixing the the film. Mhmm.
T.C.:And so let's let's play in that arena. I think movie better, I
Jim:think I think we sort of the way we've we've mentioned other things, don't don't change up the what are words where they're getting worse. Don't change up the formula. Follow the formula. I think pirates I think they tried following the same formula as pirates of The Caribbean, but I think they changed a few too many things. Like, maybe I'm not remembering or or maybe they just they just weren't enough.
T.C.:William Fincher.
Jim:There you go. There there weren't enough people to play off of. Mhmm. Right? Like Well, you
T.C.:don't have a ship of people as oppo like, in Lone Ranger, it's just Tonto and John Reed. It's the ranger and Tonto.
Jim:What's the the care the characters characters of note or Tonto, the lone ranger, the the the female lead.
T.C.:Right. It's Rebecca Reid, which is his sister-in-law, but, obviously, there's a history that maybe they should have been together the whole time.
Jim:But she was also in in the scuffle and stuff. Mhmm. There was the kid.
T.C.:Right? Tom Wilkinson plays the the turnaround bad guy in the end. So that's not as deep of a cast if you look in in at to go to Pirates of The Caribbean too. If you wanna recapture that, then you need more of an eclectic group of characters.
Jim:How do you So what you do in in a western, one of the ways you do that is you you build up the town that they're they're in and around more, or or if it's a rail if it's a railroad, a few more of the the rail characters. Right? Like, the engineer could be a comedic plucky plucky character. You have the bad guys bandit gang have a few more of them be iconic.
T.C.:Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It did if Right. Like, draw from the best, go to Die Hard, all those cronies.
T.C.:Sure. Hans Gruber have characters. They they are definitive characters. You can line them up, identify each of them. But then look at Pirates of the Caribbean.
T.C.:You have
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:It's Gareth from The Office with the wooden eye and
Jim:his And the the the other guy. Yeah.
T.C.:But then you also have the the musket bearing guardsmen who are also the two dumb dumb duo. Right? Yep. Yeah. Having more of the townsfolk fleshed out, having more of the gang of the bad guy fleshed out Mhmm.
T.C.:And giving so well, the the heroes do play in some arena, like visiting Helen Bonham Carter. She runs the brothel that they visit for one set piece.
Jim:I don't remember that.
T.C.:She has the gun in her in her leg and comes into play later.
Jim:I wow. I really don't remember. And I love her. Yeah. I I I did I did I did enjoy this movie, and I I feel like I'm I'm I'm not giving as as much as what this of what the studio is looking for because of that.
Jim:But you
T.C.:liked it as is.
Jim:Yeah. Like like, I love I love the that they were that the bad guys were looking for silver, and it kinda or quick silver, I think, is what what they ended up calling it. Mhmm. Might which which is actually mercury, but that was making them crazy, but it was supposed to be silver. Now I'm not remembering it right.
Jim:But that but they killed the Indians over it. The they're they're agreed Yep. Killed the Native Americans.
T.C.:And that's why Tonto's on his revenge.
Jim:Yeah. And and also why Tonto is a a little crazy himself because of the trauma, made him go kinda crazy.
T.C.:Talking to Bert.
Jim:Yeah. See, that's a fun that's a fun gag to me.
T.C.:I I feed the bird.
Jim:What? I think
T.C.:I just
Jim:It's stupid. That that's
T.C.:such a fun gag,
Jim:but I really like that.
T.C.:Well, here's the thing. I think they needed to to have more fun with this movie.
Jim:Like, it doesn't have to be blazing saddles.
T.C.:No. Certainly not. This is not I, by no means, would ever even put this in the realm of comedy. Sure. But the fun of of Pirates of the Caribbean comes with the the relationships and the circumstances these different types of characters are put into.
T.C.:There's I think it's the second one where they're like, we need to wait for Jack. And then they turn and see Jack running. Never mind. We're leaving. Like, little which isn't even in the movie.
T.C.:That's just in the trailer. Oh, yeah. Little bits like that. So having a much more iconic introduction to Tonto than the old man telling the story. Mhmm.
T.C.:Jack Sparrow has one of the greatest introductions in action adventure films when he comes in Oh, on the sail, but it's As the sink. Sinking. Yeah. And Will himself, Will Turner, is a much more interesting protagonist than John Reed, who is this sort of he he does play the reluctant hero, and he is the put upon hero. It have these characters need to be having more fun in in a world that is fun to play in.
T.C.:But it's so self serious. I think we can give everything that they wanted by just injecting a little more excitement and fun, which is crazy to me because it's the same creative team. Yeah. How Gore Verbinski would go from something like Pirates of the Caribbean to even like something like Rainbow Yeah. Which is a western.
Jim:Yeah. And A really a really well done one Yeah. At that.
T.C.:And then get
Jim:And Johnny Depp was in.
T.C.:Johnny Depp said, how did they get this so wrong? I just wanna talk about Rainbow now. There's a freaking Clint Eastwood cameo voiced by Timothy Olyphant. No. Yeah.
T.C.:It's a whole different thing. It's a whole different thing. Timothy Olyphant.
Jim:Oh, yeah. Would have made a really
T.C.:good Lone Ranger about fifteen years Oh, yeah. So how okay. So here's here's the demand. The studio wants this the studio wanted this to be the beginning of a new franchise, and it failed. Yeah.
T.C.:What can we do? We've given we can still give him Johnny Depp as tanto. We can still even put Armie Hammer in the lead role. Fix this, Jim.
Jim:That's what I'm trying to tell you. I think I think okay. Yeah. Even even given that. Right?
Jim:Even with those stipulations of it still has to be Armie Hammer, still has to be Johnny Depp. Honestly, we can keep all the story. We need to fill out that world. I think that's what did it. Pirates of the Caribbean worked as well as it did because that world felt alive.
Jim:We wanted to see more of that world. Even And with this, it's to a to b to c, and we're done. Why why visit this world again? What what would we do? Who I I'm we're we're gonna see more of the feeding the bird.
Jim:We're gonna see more of It's the same. Like, we we got we got what the lone ranger does. What what else what else what new things are you the movie didn't really show us the potential of that world.
T.C.:And and you
Jim:know what? That might have that that could go toward what you were talking about, that washed out feel.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Because that that washed out feel, I think, comes it comes from a a few things, probably. One, the technological limits of films of the past, but also certain westerns, like the spaghetti westerns, specifically tried to elicit a washed out feel because they're trying to make a desolate barren isn't the right word, but a harsh Mhmm. A desolate or a a harsh world. Right.
T.C.:A harsh world is not one we wanna keep coming back and playing in. Yeah. So, like
Jim:Or or you well, it can be. Right? Example, Fury Road.
T.C.:Right. But not that's not a family friendly adventure.
Jim:Yeah. That's that's that's true. That's what what we wanna You can't
T.C.:have this be Westworld. Yeah. We need families coming in and taking their kids to have with the cowboys.
Jim:That that's actually a really good that's a good way to put that because it was. It was it was Westworld with some jokes. Mhmm. No. That's not quite right.
Jim:It was it looked it looked like it. It looked like this is a gritty western. Who knows what's gonna happen next?
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:And and I think they took that cue from pirates because as colorful as pirates was, it's pretty because it's the Caribbean, but really the ships, those crew the the the crew, the people in the town, the people in town were cleaner than the people on the pirate ships. Yeah. But the they were they were dressed pretty grittily. Right? Like like, they were wearing dark colors even even for pirates.
Jim:Like, even historically, pirates wore brighter colors
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Than what those crews were wearing.
T.C.:Well, you said it earlier, by by filling out the townsfolk, by making the the world of people more interesting, you you create a world you wanna keep playing. And I think as simple as we just mentioned when Jack Spear rolls into town, he gets off on the pier, and the guy comes up with his little little boy servant, and he's like Mhmm. Oh, you can't park there. And he's like, yeah, put this down. No.
T.C.:Maybe I can park there. And, like, that guy himself, for the his moment on the screen, that little kid for his moment on the screen, there's so much about them in that instant that that feels like a much fuller world.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:You know, by by building out the townsfolk, by building out the
Jim:So what about
T.C.:rail folk.
Jim:To do almost almost the same thing. Paint by numbers here. Start with Johnny Depp as Tonto Mhmm. Wandering in to this town. They're not used to seeing Indians Yeah.
Jim:Much less one wandering into their town, much less this weirdo one. Like, he's he's, like
T.C.:Talking to a bird.
Jim:Yeah. And have him wander into this town, seeing town the townspeople doing their thing and sort of walking through and interrupting them, meeting the just kinda meeting the town that way and the town being interrupted by him. Mhmm. Yeah. Certainly.
Jim:I Just as as an introduction.
T.C.:Yeah. As I think if you set up John first, set up your protagonist first because something that the original Pirates of the Caribbean did so well was set up Will Turner and the premise of the story, at least of of his beginning of his journey, if you wanna follow the the monomyth Yeah. Template. Will Turner is set up, Elizabeth is set up, and then you meet Jack Sparrow. Yeah.
T.C.:I think the the same is almost done in Lone Ranger if you chop off the front end. Like, don't
Jim:That's true.
T.C.:Yeah. Don't start the movie with your crazy wacky side character. Set up your premise, set up your hero first, and then inject the the rogue element that is Tonto. So it's it's like a restructuring of all this existing stuff, little things like that by re repositioning the opening or re adjusting the ocean. Oh, Yeah.
T.C.:Feed the bird.
Jim:Heck. If if you oh, would would that be to to change the story up to to take the town and the townsfolk, bring them a little more center, take that whole notion of lone ranger. Do a lot of story the way it goes. You gotta get to that train that train fight somehow. I'm not sure how to do that.
T.C.:Well, I think the premise
Jim:still works. The the notion of of so the lone ranger Mhmm. Right? It's supposed to be this this guy all alone with his sidekick fighting all these bad guys. Yeah.
Jim:What if the the the sort of the theme of it is no. No one fights alone. Mhmm. So he he does. He the the the town come comes to his aid.
Jim:So the whole town helps fight off the bandits in the end.
T.C.:Yeah. And there is a little bit of element that existing with Helen Bonham Carter coming in and helping in the end, but she just is more or less a deus ex machina of setting off the powder keg that watches the whole final set piece, getting them more active in it, making you know, and the studio, come out. We're telling you you can have more hell in the bottom Carter in here. There's no downside to this. She's great.
T.C.:You can sell a movie with her more in it. Right? I the we've we've kind of walked ourselves exactly where we need to be in terms of, like, fixing this film because it is those, like, minor things Yeah. That by making it look prettier, by bringing the bringing more life to the characters, we fixed the film enough that that you can sell it better, you can sell it as more of a fun film, you can you can sell it more to family, like, you know you're in for something fun and not like a grim western Mhmm. That we could meet all the demands.
T.C.:Johnny Depp can still beat Tonto. I know I I launched in this being like, make him the lone ranger, but you sold me on it. I think that's it. That that that's how you fix this movie. And at least offer yourselves a chance for a second one.
T.C.:Sure. Because another thing that they did in this movie that they don't really explore is lean into the spiritual, like the ghost element of it. He literally got brought back from the dead. Right? So we we have a guy eating hearts for magic powers.
T.C.:Yeah. Lean into that. We had walking, talking skeleton people.
Jim:I would love I would love to do that. I I think I think that might have been one of the things they were trying not to do. They always allude to magic powers Mhmm. In Lone Ranger.
T.C.:Right.
Jim:But they never verify them. So when he came back from the dead Yeah. He didn't really he didn't literally come back from the dead. He it was he he he came very close to death, but then I think it was Tonto pretty much nursed him back to health. Right.
Jim:And I'm saying knew that.
T.C.:I'm saying lean into that. One of
Jim:the Sure.
T.C.:One of the great things of Pirates of the Caribbean is that it's it's a all mad it's a magic movie. It's all about magic. Yeah. Right? Each each one
Jim:those movies. Fantastical. And I think that, right, that that fantasticalness is what we want more of. And I think that ends up being a limitation of the property.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:I think that's that's why they didn't do that.
T.C.:I think that that's that's studio. I'm telling you. That's what you missed was leaning into a lot of what made Pirates of the Caribbean work and just trying to repeat that fully. Like, just go for it. Okay.
T.C.:This is what wanna do. I wanna take a break here.
Jim:K.
T.C.:Because I wanna delve into a new territory here based on where we've gone so far. Yep. So let's take a quick break here. We got an ad. Ad's They are.
T.C.:Will be real quick. It'll be just gonna go right here, then we come right back. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Cool. Throw us to the ad.
Jim:And ad. No. I I would You're fired. Real good at this. Hey.
Jim:This is Jordan. And I'm Max. And we're here with the Top Hat Balloon Show. That's our name. We're a sketch comedy show.
Jim:We are. And we come out weekly. And we're on YouTube. And on iTunes, I think. And the website we have is tophatballoonshow.com.
Jim:Yeah. You can, like, go and watch the stuff and, like, subscribe maybe. That'd be cool. Go there. Do it.
T.C.:You you threw it you threw it to the ads so well. I was just maybe I'll have you do it every time.
Jim:Yeah. That's that's a really good idea.
T.C.:Okay. So I I I know this was a topic I we've discussed before and that this movie that the Lone Ranger that exists isn't terrible. It just didn't have we've discussed, like, it it had it's missed its points, and it it definitely couldn't find the audience that wanted to make more of these movies. I would have liked to have seen more.
Jim:Oh, yeah.
T.C.:So let's let's go into a new territory here because I I wanna take I wanna remove the studio over a little bit. Okay? Let's remove Disney from the prep. Let's from this program. From this from this concept.
T.C.:Right? Sure. Jay Brockheimer's at the maybe he's still involved, but this is not a Disney property anymore. Okay? Okay.
T.C.:I'm going to offer this up as a studio in demand of a smaller studio. It's gotta be the Lone Ranger. Go nuts. Okay? So now you discussed earlier, oh, if you go Weird West, you'd go all in on the Weird West.
T.C.:Yeah. I'm saying, hey. We got the Lone Ranger. What are we gonna do with this? Right?
T.C.:Sure. Example of this, we've we referenced 21 Jump Street last week with the Cannonball Run episode that, like, Phil Miller and Lord came in and did what they did with 21 Jumps
Jim:21 Jumps Nova of all properties.
T.C.:And turned into this amazing action cavity.
Jim:I mean, after after we even referenced Dukes of Hazzard in the same one, and the thing is Dukes of Hazzard came out sort of at the peak of the, hey. Let's take let's take old properties and make refurbish them as as modern movie comedy movies.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:21 Jump Street came well after that whole fad. Mhmm. And so it was, like, the concept of doing that was already frankly kinda eye rolling. Yeah. And then for them to knock it out of the park the
T.C.:way it was. So what I'm saying is that you can have the lone ranger, and you can do anything you want. Now something that has been on the table for a while now, I don't even know if it's in production right now Mhmm. Is a new Zoro movie. But it's set in the future.
T.C.:It's future Zoro.
Jim:I really like Mask of Zoro. Oh. I thought that was a great movie.
T.C.:100%, you will not hear an argument from me.
Jim:I don't know how it didn't franchise.
T.C.:Well, the second one's kinda crap. There's a second There is a second one. Oh. It's the Marcus Zorro. But that Antonio Banderas, Anthony Hopkins, that first one So good.
T.C.:Precursor to Pirates of the Caribbean
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:As good as. Oh, yeah. That that Oh, yeah. Antonio Banderas, Marcus Zorro is awesome.
Jim:That mask that's that's what that's what this lone ranger should should have been.
T.C.:Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I the how they didn't just capitalize on Pirates of Caribbean and and get Martin Campbell in there. Just do what he did for Marcus Zoro.
T.C.:I don't know. But with Zoro being future Zoro Sure. It's like we have the Zoro property. Let's literally do anything the hell we wanna do with it. So Disney's off the table.
T.C.:You can go rated r with this if you want. Jim, the studio's demanding you take the Lone Ranger property and go to town. What would you do with the bare bones of what already exists? John Reed is killed and brought back to dead brought back from the dead by Tonto, who's on a revenge kick for the people who killed his entire people, tribe over silver. There you can go to town here.
T.C.:So give me a property. Give me the lone ranger as a bankable film, middle budget. Let's have some fun here. What would you do with it?
Jim:Lone Ranger.
T.C.:Because you you okay. You've alluded to it before. You have you love the weird West. Yeah. I do.
T.C.:Go there. Come on.
Jim:There's a let's talk about this. So well, there there's there's this whole other IP. It's a it's a role playing game Mhmm. Called Deadlands, and it's it's built on the entire notion of western horror. And they go they go to town.
Jim:Right? There's there's zombies. There's a there there's there's a silver doesn't drive men mad. There's this whole other thing called ghost rock Ghost rock. That drives men mad, but they they they search for it.
Jim:And there's there's mad science. Right? Because because the sort of the industrial age boom that happened.
T.C.:There's exactly steampunk?
Jim:Oh oh, like yeah. No. It it's exactly steampunk. There's there's a whole steampunk angle of of course tinged with horror
T.C.:as well. Zombies. So, like, imagine west.
Jim:Imagine Wild Wild West, but awesome.
T.C.:Like, what? Like, the Will Smith Wild
Jim:Wild West? Yeah. Like like like, take some of the the weirder stuff from that, but then put it in mask of Zoro and with with a with a a nice sprinkling on Night of Living Dead.
T.C.:Okay. There you go.
Jim:And that's I'm already interested
T.C.:in something like this. Yeah.
Jim:That's that's the world that I live in.
T.C.:Well, here. Let let me preface even further here or, like, delve into an area. The western genre as itself is one of the most failing genres to now. Right? Once upon a time, it was the only genre.
T.C.:Oh, yeah. Right? Like, the way we see cow superhero movies exist today
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Where it feels like a glut of them. And, like, this is the last. This is gonna tip us over the edge. We won't get any more superhero movies after this. Wrong.
T.C.:Wrong. Wrong. We're just gonna keep getting them until we finally hit that tipping point. And that's what westerns were in cinematic history. There was a spell where freaking every freaking movie, they go, oh god.
T.C.:Another cowboy movie. Give me a break here. Yeah. And it reached a breaking point where now westerns just fail.
Jim:Like Well, they will or well, not not even or. It's and. And they're they're arthouse movies. Right? Like
T.C.:The best like, the most high profile you could get, I think, would be hateful eight. I'll be on that. Yeah. It's like cowboy westerns are are indie flicks. They're low budget.
T.C.:They're they're not mainstream films. Yeah. You talking about Weird West, you you are delving into a territory that people love to this day, which is people is huge. Mhmm. And mainstream horror find keeps finding its legs in the dumbest things like the Resident Evil franchise or the Underworld franchise.
T.C.:So there's clearly an audience that freaking Walking Dead isn't just getting us doesn't even have a spin off show. They're doing spin off movies now.
Jim:Okay? I didn't even know that. I I didn't even know
T.C.:that. That's ridiculous. Yeah. They they took they're taking a character and being like, okay. They're just gonna have a movie franchise now.
Jim:They're gonna
T.C.:do a trilogy of films with with with The Walking Dead. That's how people still love zombies. So going into the weird West, going playing in Deadlands
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:I'm you would have an opportunity. Jim, I'll even let you direct this damn thing.
Jim:Yep.
T.C.:Just make some money with the western, and you have the lone ranger as your property to play with.
Jim:So go nuts. I think what I do with the lone ranger you know, I don't know if I do an origin story Mhmm. Honestly. I just jump to him already being a thing.
T.C.:Okay. Just the Lone Ranger exists.
Jim:Yeah. Because I it it is a it is definitely a cool backstory. Like, on until I saw that movie, I didn't know that the Lone Ranger came back from the dead Mhmm. To avenge his his brother's death or or or even any of that.
T.C.:Take me in. Take me in. Okay. Could you open up a movie with, like, a a criminal group, like, around a campfire? Like, gotta get away with this money we stole from all these or we did some bad stuff and we gotta get away from it.
T.C.:Well, I heard, know, oh, they hear about the Indians. Well, I'll tell you who's gonna come first. The lone ranger. Oh, lone ranger's a myth. And like a group of, you know, a dozen or so crooks telling the story like, heard this and I heard this and I heard this.
T.C.:Oh, I heard you got brought back from the dead. Well, I heard that. Like, I don't know what everyone's like sharing their opinion of
Jim:the lone
T.C.:and then you have the one guy who hasn't said a thing who just like, you know what, I heard about the lone ranger and it's him and he takes them all out.
Jim:Well, that's not that's pretty good.
T.C.:And that's your open your cold opener of the movie. It's like the Lone Ranger is literally there the whole time. If if almost a Batman esque presence.
Jim:Yeah. I would I wanna change one I wanna change so I like the idea. It's a it's a crew of bandits.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:And they're probably going double file on their horses down a trail at night. So they got torches or lanterns or both. And they do they do start talking. And as we're following them, we see we see them taken out from the back.
T.C.:One by one.
Jim:Yeah. And then when there's maybe maybe six left, they they come to a clearing, and he's there. Right? Or or
T.C.:Tonto's there.
Jim:Oh, that there you go. Yeah. Tonto's way, Indian. And he says, you know what I You know what I heard
T.C.:about the Lone Ranger. Yeah. Like, somehow he inexplicably heard their mile long conversation. Know what I heard about the Lone Ranger? Yeah.
Jim:And yeah. So so something like that. And yeah. No. I'm I'm in I'm into that.
T.C.:And then opening credits. Yep. Now he's a thing. So there's your origin is basically myth. Yeah.
T.C.:So we don't know what's true about this guy.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. I I really like that. So and and so you start you start straight with that. And then, yeah, go to credits, open opening opening logo, opening credits, and then you probably cut to him dragging some bandits into so whether it's the same ones
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Or some other ones just dragging bandits into a town to throw in in the local jail.
T.C.:Could you go if that's your introduction of the character after that bringing him into town, could there be your first brush with the supernatural that I think that this movie should go into? Could he be a skeptic? And even being going so far as Tonto being, like, the full believer in the the paranormal, the weird West, and and John's the skeptic, and even Tonto going so far as, like, how can you be a skeptic? You were literally brought back from the dead. Sure.
T.C.:And he's no. I don't believe it. Almost in that Han Sole, like, I've been to one side of the the West and the other, and I've never seen anything that makes me believe in the supernatural. It's
Jim:like Okay. Oh, whole I I can go I can go nuts. I I think then the story the story I tell
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Don't even know details of you. I would do a ghost train.
T.C.:Ghost train. There's literally
Jim:there there's this train that that mysteriously comes into town, blow blows through the train the the station, maybe even goes off the rails somehow, like like like, this train came up mainstream.
T.C.:How did
Jim:it do that? No one knows.
T.C.:You know what you do? You you're leading yourself to having the same final set piece from the two from the Lone Ranger as it exists. The crossing tracks, the two cars, get the silver on there.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Yeah. So you can still save that element of the existing Lone Ranger that you get to that final set piece. Yeah. Blow up the you have to stop this train before it gets gets to the end of the line. Mhmm.
T.C.:You you could even play in the constantly keep it skeptical. You I'm not going Scooby Doo here per se, but is it the weird West, or is it just appear to be the
Jim:weird West? See, I think I think the original one ranger, that that's what they were trying to do. Mhmm.
T.C.:They couldn't
Jim:do what
T.C.:they wanted.
Jim:And they and they leaned they leaned on factually, it's not. In actuality, it's not supernatural, but it seems like Yeah. Leaning whole in, I think oh, okay. No. No.
T.C.:Go ahead. If we're gonna capitalize on the success of of what Pirates of the Caribbean did, there is the rumor, the rumor, the rumor, and then you best start believing in ghost stories, miss Turner. You're in one. So if John or or maybe the love interest character, his sister is the the his brother's wife
Jim:There's there's the ghost train. Yep. The ghost train, and it's full of bandits. Yeah. And they rob towns.
Jim:Yeah. And then the train takes off, mysteriously disappears. Mhmm. Lone ranger finds the train, gets on it, like, I'm gonna find out where they're going. I'm gonna go back to to where their their Base.
Jim:Hideout is. And it goes to hell. Oh. The the bandits and the train, they're they're from hell, and they're robbing they're
T.C.:robbing towns. That's your first act twist into, like, oh, no. This is a ghost train. Yeah. These are ghosts.
T.C.:They're they are the damned from hell. Yeah. Now and then there you go. And then it's a matter of like, well, how the hell do I stop them?
Jim:Yeah. I I don't know. I wanna I wanna see this movie to find out how how they stop them.
T.C.:Okay. So this this sounds way more fun. And I yeah. I agree. Go go all in on
Jim:the Well, and and and and as far as, like, what you were what we were talking about as far as opening the world, like, oh god. If that's possible
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Yeah. What other adventures does this crazy man go on? Werewolves? Easily.
T.C.:Yeah. The Wild West werewolves? Yeah. Why not? Not not vampires.
T.C.:Come on. Don't Well Don't
Jim:Vampire the vampires I've seen done a lot. Actually, I hated the western genre when I was growing up.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:And one of the first stories I thought of was actually a western. Like, I'm gonna make westerns likable. And it was actually about a dentist who comes across some vampires.
T.C.:Oh.
Jim:That that was Wild
T.C.:West Dentists.
Jim:Yeah. That was right. Well, because dentistry was was quite new
T.C.:at time.
Jim:Yeah. So that that was Well, if you That was my first turn toward westerns. And in my in the IP that I love, Deadlands Mhmm. There's actually a one of their more popular stories is adventures is called Night Train, which is about a train that comes into town, and I'm just gonna spoil that whole
T.C.:Do it.
Jim:For you and all you listeners. It's basically a train full of Nosferatu. And when they unload, they basically suck the town dry. Like, they kill everyone in the town, get back on the train, and take off. And they they and the the cars are, like, sealed so no light gets in, and then they just they just hide off on on a spur so no one can find that train.
T.C.:And the heroes the heroes
Jim:have to
T.C.:Well, okay. If you have a ghost Stop them.
Jim:But I I like I like this ghost train idea and going to hell. Yes. I'm burping up a storm here.
T.C.:I'm sorry about that. The silver still being some sort of MacGuffin, like Sure. Collecting the silver. You could still have the the mayor of the town who is a traitor to his people and is actually respond you could still have the the death of the tribe that Tonto like, now may maybe not. Maybe that maybe that's delving too much into the origin story aspect of it, and I think I like the idea of the lone ranger just exists.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And maybe it's better that he just goes town to town around the West, and this just happens to be where he ends up now dealing with the ghost train. But setting that up to explore the West further by having werewolves be the second movie. Yeah. Right?
Jim:Well and and that one oh, that that that one writes itself. Right? It's it's literally it's a wolf it's a wolf pack. They're they're a pack of bandits, and they're they're werewolves. And Silver silver bullets.
Jim:Yeah. Mhmm. So much fun.
T.C.:So where where do you go with the third one, though? I don't I I know I said, I don't wanna see vampires. Give me something else besides vampires.
Jim:Well, if honestly, it kinda sounds like we're we're slowly moving as as we're moving toward less overtly supernatural thing. The first one, we took a ghost train to hell. Like, right? Like, it's full of demon slash undead bandits, and he has to fight all that and stop it. Right?
Jim:There you The second one, werewolves. Like, werewolves on the that sounds like a big deal, but I fought a ghost train that went to hell.
T.C.:What do you get? Woah. Bring on the dog boy. Come on. I wanna do this.
T.C.:Yeah. Oh. So maybe with the third
Jim:like, right? So that maybe the whole angle, whole theme of where where we're going is in the end, humans are the worst ones.
T.C.:That's the third one. Is it the okay. Well,
Jim:It's like it is it isn't supernatural.
T.C.:It's Could it be a circus then? Like, the third one is just the freak freak humans.
Jim:Sort of. I I'm I have a weird relationship with that theme. I don't I I'm I'm okay with the the freak show and and the and circus. Or gooborg. Yeah.
Jim:But, like, like, mixing them in or just just kind of dropping them in as the bad guy always feels weird to me.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:Like, as their own thing, it's cool, but using using them as a as a Okay.
T.C.:Actually
Jim:something like this, it feels
T.C.:Strike that. Let's not make the the circus freaks bad guys. Make them make them
Jim:Well, actually, going with the theme of most westerns
T.C.:Mhmm. What you do is
Jim:you have encroaching civilization. Something what what what can we bring from the East that that is is somehow destroying the West that is worse than trains from hell, that's worse than werewolves.
T.C.:What would be electricity, telephones, some sort of like I I I you had referenced Wildlife West earlier having the steampunk, like, giant spider machine. Sure. There's gotta be a better way to do that than what we got from Wild Wild West having some sort of electricity super weapon that's Sure. Blowing blowing towns away. Yeah.
T.C.:So you're dealing in, like, Wild West sci fi. You you I know you love Tesla. You have a chance to play with
Jim:Oh, Tesla.
T.C.:Edison. Make Edison your bad guy. Oh, there's your third bad guy.
Jim:That's a oh. Third movie bad guy. Oh, DC. That's a whole that's a whole other. Yeah.
Jim:Please. Let me please die. I have a whole story based around around that.
T.C.:Tesla versus Edison. Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. I have a whole alternate history fiction where where Tesla and Edison fight a whole second civil war. East, first, West.
T.C.:But I I think man being the big villain in the end is your
Jim:Plugging stories I'm never gonna write.
T.C.:Or not. Or not.
Jim:Or not. I might write them.
T.C.:Having having, like, a big super weapon role in the town and and have to stop the mechanics of it. Because then it's like the the thing with that is
Jim:Well, I guess if if we keep it fantastical Mhmm. That's automatons.
T.C.:Robots. Yeah. You can shoot robots.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:So it's just gonna say we're giving a third movie where he can't shoot his way out of it, but if you make it the freaking Cyberman. Yeah. Well, there you go. Start blowing those things away. Yeah.
T.C.:Robots. Yeah. So you got Ghost Train, Werewolves, Robots. That's a trilogy that I would freaking watch the hell out. And and make it weird.
T.C.:Have like, there's no reason to ground this in a reality.
Jim:Oh,
T.C.:no. Pirates of the Caribbean didn't do it. Why should we why should we do it here? So you see what we did here, Jim? It's actually I swung you back around into giving the studio what they wanted Oh.
T.C.:With a better film. Yeah. A legitimate trilogy that I think would be fun as hell to watch.
Jim:Yeah. I would I would love I would love to watch that.
T.C.:And and, like, the backstory and the history, like, figuring out what Tonto's deal is, like, figuring out what John's history is with his brother and and the woman he loves that he married, like Sure. That can possibly be sprinkled out through a trilogy here. Mhmm. I think there's way more benefit in not forcing a trilogy story in just making three movies. Okay?
T.C.:Yeah. I've I've told I've said this time and again about the Pirates of the Caribbean. They made a huge mistake in turning that first one into a three part trilogy. That second and third one are so forced to making a trilogy Yeah. That if they had just treated it like temple of doom and just told another story that had that had, Davy Jones as the bad guy Mhmm.
T.C.:It would have been a much better film than a cliffhanger ending, and now we gotta come back for the third to complete the trilogy you never knew you wanted that they hadn't planned on. That was a mistake. I think coming in and just being like, here's another one. Did you see the first one? Doesn't matter.
T.C.:Mhmm. You can just sit down and watch this. Yeah.
Jim:Well, which seemed like the point. They didn't number them. They just they gave them the the under title.
T.C.:Yeah. But the but you still have to watch the second and third.
Jim:Yeah. Like, can't The way they the way they made them, yes. But they they could have. They should have been
T.C.:Just stand alone.
Jim:Stand alone. Right? Like, curse of the black pearl.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Oh, this is gonna be about the Black Pearl. Mhmm. The second one was Dead
T.C.:man dead man's chest.
Jim:Dead man's chest? Yeah. Or Like, oh, oh, that was good. This is gonna be about treasure.
T.C.:Yep. And then World's
Jim:End. Or or or maybe some clever twist. Right? Like, it's about one specific dead guy. And then World's End.
Jim:So well, now we're we're tangenting at this point. I don't care. I'm gonna tell. When I first heard about At World's End, I thought I thought I thought where they were gonna go was literally the quote unquote ends of the world. In the first one, we got undead.
Jim:Right? We got we got living dead pirates. In the second one, we got fish man pirates.
T.C.:Yep.
Jim:In the third one, we didn't get any special kind of pirates. We we got we got we got Asian pirates. That was the big no. No. No.
Jim:I wanted ice pirates.
T.C.:Ice pirates.
Jim:Not the movie ice pirates. I love that movie. It's terrible, but I love it. But like
T.C.:It's a different studio. Demands it. Yeah.
Jim:I I wanted I I thought the edge of the world, right, was going to be the Arctic or Antarctic. Yeah.
T.C.:Well, they did technically go there to rescue GM.
Jim:A little bit. Yeah. They well, they they did a whole flipping the world, end of the world thing. But, like, I
T.C.:thought point of
Jim:the view. Yeah. I thought it was gonna be these big old ice ships that that can't sink because you can't sink ice. And there's gonna be, like, abominable snowmen and or pirates made of literal ice that they had to fight.
T.C.:Well, let's go to Lone Ranger and do and play. Can we have cactus men? Can we have sand people? We can we have
Jim:Sand people we could have. Cactus men is a little well, actually, I could think of a way to do that. It sounds ridiculous, but I think there would be a way to do Or, you
T.C.:know, maybe Tanto's, like, trying to get directions and, like, cactus or, like, YMCA direct Yeah.
Jim:No. See, that's that's where that's that's but, like, if if you have, like, like, creepy cactuses and then, like, it turns, like, some eyes open, you're like, oh god. Yeah. I I think you you could get something there. But sand sand people
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Definitely work. They they walk single file to hide their numbers. Yeah. Shots are true. I mean they swapped over.
Jim:I don't know where you put them into the three movies we named.
T.C.:Right. Well, let
Jim:But we could do oh, he has to get their help to stop the
T.C.:robots. Oh. So just playing in other look, little little additions to this this trilogy franchise. We've got this Lone Ranger franchise. Actually, wonder if we could think of the subtitles right now.
T.C.:I mean, like, Lone Ranger and the Ghost Train, The Lone Ranger and The Wolf
Jim:The Werewolves.
T.C.:The Werewolves.
Jim:Nah. Just Are we just gonna pull some old Universal monster movie stuff Well,
T.C.:here's the thing is that, like, if we're if we wanna delve into, like, the old school feel of of a series like this, then why not go, like, Batman and the Monster Men is a fantastic comic. It's straight up an old Universal monster movie with Batman. Yeah. And they even, like, font it. Like, the font is, like, looks like an old Frankenstein poster.
T.C.:It's like Sure. Batman and the monster man. Why not? Right? So, like, the the lone ranger and the robe versus the roboman.
T.C.:Like, it could just be as simple as that. Sure. As cheesy as that might sound. Lean into it. Why not?
Jim:Sure. It's well, yeah, especially if that's not like a a twist reveal or something. Yeah. Or or just like some special reveal you're saving.
T.C.:Open the movie with a robot attack. Yeah. Like, just get right to it. So, like, the
Jim:Oh, actually, that's
T.C.:Like, the Lone Ranger and the Night Moon or something like that. Something that has curse of the full moon or something like that. I don't know. What what are some other things to play with in this weird west that that
Jim:Oh, well, the the sky's the limit.
T.C.:They could fly in. Like like, we can have an air attack like zeppels.
Jim:Yeah. Zeppels.
T.C.:Is, like, having the big final boss battle be against Thomas Edison? Like
Jim:I'm I I don't even tease me with that kind of thing. I love it. I I I would the the story about Tesla versus Edison Mhmm. Is great. Here here's something.
Jim:There's actually there's a number of stories people have already written that that are that are phenomenal.
T.C.:That that play in that arena. I I I would love to see if since we're doing this trilogy Mhmm. We have our lone ranger. We have Tonto. Right?
T.C.:They're the two that are in every one of them. Mhmm. I would love and I referenced Indiana Jones earlier, a different love interest for each of the movies. Something that the original Indiana Jones trilogy does so well is Marion, Willie, and Ilsa are three very different women. Mhmm.
T.C.:And I'd love to see something like that in that what thematically to our freak of the movie Mhmm. Having some female counterpart, whether it's a love interest or a compatriot or or a rival Sure. Or all three. There you go. Love interests, side of ally, and rival be the three movies.
T.C.:There's something that a studio would have a lot of fun with is who do you cast in this one?
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Right? Well, who's your you can get a if if army hammer is your is the face of the lone ranger, that's not a bankable star. We're making him a bankable star. Yep. If Johnny Depp is your
Jim:Your tanto.
T.C.:Your tanto, Jack Sparrow, you're definitely gonna sell his name on this. Getting that third cast member on the poster, having, like, a a really cool female lead come in and do some fun stuff Mhmm. That's that alone, your three person cast. And then playing your villains up. Who's the leader of the ghost train?
T.C.:Who's the leader of the werewolves? Who is Thomas Edison? Mhmm.
Jim:Right? Actually, for the third now that now, like so I'm thinking to go with what you said with the the first one, the the love interest Mhmm. Is the mayor, the mayor of one of the towns that is is being attacked.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:The second one, what did you say? Compatriot?
T.C.:Ally. Ally. Yeah.
Jim:So it's someone who knows how to hunt werewolves.
T.C.:Okay. There you go. Wolf. Right.
Jim:So so at first, everyone thinks she's crazy. Mhmm. But she knows what she's talking about.
T.C.:And she has a backstory. Werewolves killed my family. Yep. There you I know how to stop it.
Jim:So yeah. And then in the third one, maybe Thomas Edison is the is the the the guy behind everything. Mhmm. But the person who's actually running the robot men is is your villain. It's your is your villainess.
T.C.:Your villainess. Okay. Yeah. Like, his his She
Jim:she's the one who actually created the robots.
T.C.:Oh, there you go. He's the he's the face man, and she's the brains.
Jim:And Sort of.
T.C.:Yeah. So is it a matter of, like
Jim:Well, because, you know, Thomas Edison, he did invent a couple things, but he mostly just
T.C.:took credit for everybody else's. Yeah. So having her having a a John's story, the ranger's story, and this is like, can he save her in the end? Like like Elsa
Jim:I I wasn't thinking that.
T.C.:Going head to head
Jim:with She's she's just she's the bad guy.
T.C.:Okay. She was just nice. Or where our wolf girl shoots she's got like a rifle, like a badass rifle. Right? Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. So here's one little one little one more little variable I I'm gonna throw out there.
Jim:Since
T.C.:we're away from the Disney label and we can literally do anything here.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:First, actually, before I finish that, I think we've come up with a trilogy that Disney would make. Yeah? I think we're safely in the territory
Jim:of Can and and you could still you could still do all these things without going whole hog r. Yeah.
T.C.:So take take there's one little element here. Have you heard of the comic, The Rawhide Kid? Okay. So this is a
Jim:Let's say let's yeah. Yes. But I don't know enough about it, so let's say no.
T.C.:So The Rawhide Kid came out, I don't know, a decade ago or so. It's a it's a it's an indie comic. It's it's essentially the Lone Ranger. Okay. Very much just like the authority is just Justice League.
T.C.:Right?
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:And much like the authority where Batman and Superman are gay lovers and and and loving relationship with each other. That's Midnighter and Hyperion? Nope. That's not right.
Jim:I'll believe you.
T.C.:Apollo. There you go. Then the Rawhide kid, Lone Ranger's gay. Like, that's the the main character's gay. And it's a matter of fact thing.
T.C.:So is there potential to delve into that in this franchise?
Jim:Making the Lone Ranger gay?
T.C.:Yeah. Like, I I don't know. I wouldn't make it a gimmick. Would just make it a thing that he and and the the the thing to play in here is that, like, okay. If he's this handsome leading hero type, why is he a perpetual bachelor?
T.C.:It's sort of the joke that the later references to Aunt Harriet from Batman 66 was always sort of like
Jim:Oh, yeah.
T.C.:Alluding to like, oh, I know your secret, Bruce. Worry about it. Right. You go fishing. Right?
T.C.:Like, what do you mean Aunt Harriet? He's just my ward. Right. Right. Wink.
T.C.:Like, I I don't know. I don't want it to come off like a gimmick to to make the Lone Ranger gay, but I think that there's an opportunity here to maybe play with that element. And we are the least qualified people to be discussing this topic right now, but I wanted to throw that out there. If you think there's a potential
Jim:there. Sure. Sure. I I
T.C.:I okay. I guess that's more of something I'd like to throw out to any of our listeners. If the the the problem with a lot of the most classic of classic heroes, especially through cinema and literature Mhmm. Is they're all straight white men. Yeah.
T.C.:There's there's a lot of of opportunity to mix that up in this modern era. So I'm wondering if if that could be an element. Something that Wild Wild West did that despite being not a great movie is they made Jim West black. Back in 1999, people didn't really lose their shit over that. But if they did that now, good lord, people would have a SJW bullshit.
T.C.:He's I I think the Lone Ranger is so removed from the zeitgeist. It's you know, that's that's a that's our grandfather's hero from back in the day. It's not like our dads even, like, were in love with the lone ranger. So why not find a way to mix it up?
Jim:Sure. I I think that that same element that would complain about Wild Wild West now
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:I think they'd complain as well. But that's not who we're trying to please here.
T.C.:No. We're not. We're we're we're giving we're off see, there's the thing was, like, trying to appease the studio and get the most money out of this. Mhmm. Because that's what it really comes down to, as we've said before.
T.C.:Yeah. Risking that, oh, I don't know. We might put some people off. Yeah. Or being brave enough to say, you know what?
T.C.:No. We're gonna corner the market on a on a group that's underrepresented.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Something that I will was very happy with what they did in the most recent fantastic beast, the crimes of Grindelwald, is that they they leaned into Dumbledore and Grindelwald having a relationship. They did not they did not shy away from
Jim:that. Oh.
T.C.:They were like, yep. That this is a fact. And I I you know, kudos to them to to lean into that. It's like, sure. Yeah.
T.C.:Why not? Let's not make a big deal about it. Let's just it is. Sure. So, yeah, may maybe that's that's something more out for the the the audience here.
T.C.:Is there an element in this style of Lone Ranger that that you would mix up? Make make him of a different ethnicity, make him of a different sexuality. Is there something there to to play with? Could Tonto be of a diff could Tonto be female? Like, there's there's no.
T.C.:The studio demanded Johnny Depp.
Jim:Yeah. It's true.
T.C.:Yeah. So there's there's a little bit of a a question out to the audience there if there's anything I know. We have our one peanut gallery off to my left here. I wonder if she has any ideas if you wanted to shout at the mic right now, anything you would do with the Lone Ranger. You're blinking like you weren't listening.
T.C.:I don't think you're back. That's fine. So I'll throw it out there to the strong female. More strong female. Well, I we we we've created a trilogy of three diff I think there's some strong female roles to be played with here.
T.C.:Let's say Helen and Bottom card is still involved. It's like the Bordello
Jim:Of Of course. Oh, I I was assuming that already. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. Her character
Jim:Oh. Think is That's what you do. So you you you bring up you you have the the the Bordello Mhmm. Be it's not in in in a town. It's it's just sort of this this place out out on its own, and that's the one place that they keep visiting in each That's
T.C.:your go to set piece. Yeah. They come back to that. Yeah. They're they're more or less home base.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. Well, any other thoughts to have here? I think what happened here was really nice. I I I threw out the Lone Ranger to see how we could fix it. We spent more I think I spent more time criticizing it for what
Jim:it Sure. Wasn't.
T.C.:Yeah. But I think we found our way back to crafting what I think would be a
Jim:It'd be fun. Cool trilogy. It'd be a lot of fun.
T.C.:And there's a lot of fun to be had here. And I I can I can even I can even think of what the teaser trailer would for this would be? Right? Like, you got a, like, a sweeping, like, shots of, like, the lone ranger, like, riding up again like, to the side of a like, the back of a train. Right?
T.C.:And, like, climbing up on climbing up on the train. And, you know, get the big sweep. That's the magnificent seven. That's the wrong way to do And he and he's running across the top of the train, like, a tunnel's coming up, and he just, like, throws himself down on top of it. And then he's in the dark, and it's like, like, Light.
T.C.:And then he comes out of the tunnel and, like, red, like, flames are, like, glowing on his face. And he stands up, eyes going wide, and they do a reverse. And he's standing on top of the train. You've seen him from behind, and there's hell in front of him. And he just unclips his gun and pulls it from his holster.
T.C.:And then a like a brand goes across the screen, like, dissolve like burning everything away.
Jim:Burning it away.
T.C.:And it says, hey. You know, the lone ranger and the ghost train coming this summer.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Let's let's make that make that happen. Let's make it so.
Jim:Number one.
T.C.:And, you're volunteering to direct. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
T.C.:The studio is demanding someone cheap. So will you
Jim:I will work for
T.C.:Free.
Jim:Free. Just
T.C.:Yeah. Let me do it. Yeah. I'd yeah. So, yeah, any final thoughts on on the Lone Ranger as a property?
Jim:I think No. I think I think we said we said
T.C.:I think we've absolutely come up with a better movie than what we got and and the misapp and Well,
Jim:it it it can't be worse. Yeah.
T.C.:It could. Oh, it could. Did
Jim:you see
T.C.:Jonah Hex?
Jim:Yeah. It could.
T.C.:It could be worse. It could be worse. So I'll throw it out to listeners What you what you thought of this concept, what you thought about the Lone Ranger that we got with the one the one that we just conceptualized here, and what we could have gotten. What do you think of that? Anything we missed?
T.C.:Any other elements that we we should talk about if we come back? If we rodeo ourselves
Jim:I see what
T.C.:wrangle ourselves back to this topic. Alright. I'm gonna do the quick social here. Right? So like, subscribe.
T.C.:If you I wanna give a huge shout out to Six Media for providing us with this platform. Go check out everything Six Five Media has been creating. Jim, where Yes. Can people find you?
Jim:You can find me at my Twitter handle
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Of Tubac Waxon.
T.C.:Tubac Waxon. Again, not a Star Wars character. Not a Star Wars sounds like it should
Jim:Tubac Tubac. Waxon.
T.C.:Wax, w a x o n.
Jim:The the it at five Waxon.
T.C.:You are definitely changing that.
Jim:Yes. I am.
T.C.:You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at t c's big head. Hit me up, comment, DM, message, wherever you wanna see. Throw out some studio demands for us. We actually got one that we might take on next week that one of our most devout listeners has thrown at us. But we would love an opportunity to to take on a topic that we've literally had no time to think about
Jim:Yes.
T.C.:As opposed to one of us at least giving it an iota of thought before we jump into this thing. But that is that is it. That's it for this episode. Thanks, Jim. This was this was fun.
Jim:It was fun. I'd like thinking about westerns. I knew you would. I really do.
T.C.:I'm glad that you you indulged me in in in playing in this topic right
Jim:Lone Ranger and the the ghost rails. Oh, the ghost rails?
T.C.:Yeah. Well, what a ghost train.
Jim:Ghost rails?
T.C.:Straight up call the ghost I
Jim:was trying to get a little fancy with it.
T.C.:Yeah. Think people will be confused. Rails.
Jim:Well, what would what's confusing about that? Trains use rails?
T.C.:No. So are, like, handrails? I'm confused. What? Remember, Jim, the audience is stupid.
T.C.:Not our audience. Our audience is brilliant. We love our audience.
Jim:It's true. It's true. The studio the studio's audience.
T.C.:The studio thinks the audience is stupid. They thought we would accept Johnny Depp as a Native American Indian. And we did.
Jim:Yeah. We did.
T.C.:Okay. That's it for this episode. Think everyone. I am, who am I? I'm TC.
Jim:You're you're TC Duet. Yeah. And you are? I'm Jim Berzelik.
T.C.:Thank you, Jim.
Jim:You're welcome, TC.
T.C.:You're you're wax on.
Jim:Oh, I'm Tupac. I'm Tupac wax on. Tubek on.
T.C.:That's all for this episode. We'll see you next time. And that's that's we're go ahead.
Jim:We're We're TSDI.
T.C.:Dubs. We're
Jim:yeah. Yeah. I I remembered that one.
T.C.:I don't know if
Jim:We are we are The studio demands it.
T.C.:The t s
Jim:d a Wait. No. Are we not that?
T.C.:No. T s d a sounds like something you contract. Yeah. You it's Thank thank you for listening, everyone. You have contracted t d s I.
T.C.:We'll see you next time. Oh, I got an itch. I got a burning. What? You
Jim:got some TSDI. TSDI. You're gonna wanna stay
T.C.:home for a little while. Don't go near people.
Jim:Don't go near people. That was TSDI.