S1 EP02 | The Universal Dark Universe
S1 #2

S1 EP02 | The Universal Dark Universe

Jim:

Hey. I'm Max Olmsted.

T.C.:

And I'm Jordan Johnson. And we're

Jim:

here to talk about the Tap Hat Balloon Show.

T.C.:

Yeah. It's a sketch comedy series. Each episode is a wacky new thing that, will just fill your heart with joy.

Jim:

Comes out every week. Listen to it. Quickly.

T.C.:

Go watch. Go watch a thing. You can subscribe to the Top Hat Balloon Show on iTunes or YouTube, or visit its website at tophatballoonshow.com. Hello, and welcome to the Studio Demands It, an exercise in thinking where we will challenge ourselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. I am TCD Witt, and joining me as always is my cohost, Jim.

T.C.:

Don't call me Samantha Berzelik. How you doing, Jim?

Jim:

Don't call me Samantha.

T.C.:

So what are we doing here? Though this is our second episode, there might be some new listeners, so I will just say we talk movies all the time. Don't we, Jim? All the time. In particular, we complain about the choices made in certain blockbusters and franchises.

T.C.:

And, of course, as any good, decent, red blooded nerd does, we automatically assume we could do better even with the demands and restrictions that were clearly put upon the production in question. Yep. And I'm a writer.

Jim:

I am also a writer.

T.C.:

Yep. We both have we're both filmmakers. We both direct. You're an actor. I'm an actor.

T.C.:

Right? So we are not without our experience. Okay. So Jim, how are doing? I'm doing good.

T.C.:

Welcome back.

Jim:

Thank you. Thank you for having me back.

T.C.:

That is our thing.

Jim:

Yeah. Is half mine. Thank you for

T.C.:

Yes, have yours. We have joint custody of this podcast. How are you feeling? We we were talking off mic before we started since our last episode. How are you feeling about about this?

Jim:

Good. I still feel I feel very confident about that last episode. I'm feeling less confident about this one. Right? Because this is this this is nerve wracking.

T.C.:

Yeah. This is always good for

Jim:

It it is. But it's it's, man, it's an interesting dynamic because we don't plan any of this out. Mhmm. And so it's I I this is gonna be a terrible analogy, but I'm equating it to kind of a sports game Mhmm. Where you can practice and be ready, but you don't even know how what's gonna happen when you get out on the field.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a that's a pretty fair analogy. If we're good at anything, it's analogies. It's like it's it's like we're really good at analogies.

Jim:

It it is. It is like that.

T.C.:

It's like that. You were you were, sharing a little bit of fear though because like you

Jim:

Because it's Halloween. Oh. It's a spooky time.

T.C.:

See now, we're recording this near the near the season of Halloween.

Jim:

It's true. I should not know it.

T.C.:

You have date episodes.

Jim:

I shouldn't

T.C.:

date episodes. This is coming out in

Jim:

the spring. Welcome to 1985.

T.C.:

Alt 1985. Why did I do it that way? Do that?

Jim:

Because that's how they talked in the old timey

T.C.:

the old timey 1980,

Jim:

eighties are now the old timey times.

T.C.:

Isn't it if we wanted to do like eighties stuff, wouldn't it be more like, hey, radical dude?

Jim:

It would be.

T.C.:

Yeah. But you also had some fear like, some reservations. So for last episode, for those who might not have gone and listened to it, did Die Hard and you had shared a little bit of concern over the fact that you hadn't actually seen Die Hard five. I obviously had for the amount of complaint I had for it. Yes.

T.C.:

I won't go into that detail. You can just go listen. But I think that's okay that you haven't

Jim:

seen It's okay to have not seen the works that we are discussing?

T.C.:

Yes, because the whole concept behind this is that we are meeting the demands of some hypothetical studio, right? Sure. How often do you think those higher ups are trying to make decisions on franchises that they don't have an effing clue about? So the fact that you were making decisions based on something you didn't see is exactly how some studios make films.

Jim:

Okay. You make me feel better about my apprehensions.

T.C.:

Yeah. So, I mean, just think of the classic John Peter story that Kevin Smith told about him sitting down and hearing Superman, Who's Kal El? Who's the Man of Steel? Who's the last son of Krypton? Just say Superman, right?

T.C.:

Because that's what I know. So you don't need to feel bad.

Jim:

Okay.

T.C.:

Yeah. And take that into consideration for whatever we do from this point Okay.

Jim:

Yeah. That does sort of reframe it for me. You're the idiot studio.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. No. No. No.

T.C.:

We're working for the idiot studio.

Jim:

The reason that it's it's still nerve wracking is is a, recreating the movie that is. Right? Like, the whole idea is if we're like, oh, we didn't like that. Let's remake it. And then I just say the same thing that happened.

T.C.:

What is what is this? You've done exactly what the studio made the guy do. We were trying to fix this stuff.

Jim:

But the the other one oh, I had I had it, now it's gone. The the other angle that that I'm afraid of doing is no. I forgot it.

T.C.:

Like, franchises and not having seen all the

Jim:

Sort of. Well, know you had- I forgot the point.

T.C.:

Had discussed, you feel disingenuous, who the hell are we? We are lovers of film. We are. And we have experience in film. And really in the grand picture things, we wish we could do this.

T.C.:

Sure. Yeah. So why not have a little bit of wish fulfillment recorded for all the

Jim:

world to see here? Edit that out. Can look at

T.C.:

the at the The WAV file? Yeah. The WAV file.

Jim:

That's what we look like anyway.

T.C.:

Let's just Squiggles. You're squiggly.

Jim:

We're horizontal squiggles.

T.C.:

It's because we lay down when we do this.

Jim:

Well, that's the only way to get the sound to come out.

T.C.:

I'm assuming that's how podcasts are done.

Jim:

Yes.

T.C.:

Someone lays down horizontally.

Jim:

That's what podcast means.

T.C.:

Yeah. The the the the pod means prone casts. The original terminology for padding was prone casting and then it started to pone cast and then You get it, you get it. Did you follow me on that one?

Jim:

Of course I did. I was there every step of the way. Thank you.

T.C.:

Yes and, yes and, yes and. So should we jump in on this? Sure. Okay. So this is what we do.

T.C.:

We have a ridiculous pile of studio properties. We are randomly selecting each week. So we're trading off here. I picked Die Hard last week. Jim, you have the studio demanded movie of the of this episode.

T.C.:

Right? Yep. So we're gonna dive in here. Today, the studio demands.

Jim:

So I recently watched the new mummy, the mummy 2017.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Tom Cruise.

Jim:

Tom Cruise. Gotcha. And it was average. It actually wasn't awful. It was average.

Jim:

But it started with a giant logo for dark universe, which has since been canceled.

T.C.:

Because the mummy was a failure. Yes. And Dracula untold before that was a failure. Yes. They're like, no third try.

T.C.:

Are you saying the studio's demanding a third try?

Jim:

The studio's demanding make Dark Universe work. So I haven't seen Dracula Untold.

T.C.:

Okay. That's fine. Because Dracula Untold was erased by The Mummy. But the whole

Jim:

idea erased by it?

T.C.:

Well, they just just try it again. It was Amazing Spider Man, then Spider Man Homecoming style.

Jim:

Oh, see. I was assuming it was more Avengers style where Dracula and Toll stood, and then The Mummy stood, and they were gonna eventually do something combining them. And if the original was bad, they were just gonna Incredible Hulk it, where they're just gonna say, okay. Yeah. It's it's in there, but let's just let's move on.

T.C.:

As is my understanding because Dracula Untold didn't pan out at all. It was not a financial critical success. They were just like, alright, let's try again. Let's go with The Mummy. We got Tom Cruise this time and that mister Russ Crow fella, that big Australian dude from the nineties.

T.C.:

You remember him? Is he in the bad times at the hotel motel

Jim:

Russell Crowe? Yeah.

T.C.:

Whatever. It's okay. Don't worry about it. No. So you're No.

T.C.:

You're No. You're The studio's demanding a a dark universe. Yep. Universal Studios dark universe. So please continue.

Jim:

So, well, so my original thinking was I thought Dracula Untold was still a part of it, and if neither of us seen it, I suppose it doesn't matter. But it is make dark universe work

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Counting what has already come.

T.C.:

Okay. So Counting

Jim:

Dracula Untold.

T.C.:

I have seen Counting

Jim:

The Mummy.

T.C.:

I have seen Dracula Untold, and I have seen The

Jim:

Mummy. Okay.

T.C.:

So we'll we'll we'll just assume that Universal Studios wants to maintain the properties they have. Mhmm. And they are saying it's Dracula Untold and The Mummy exist. Yes. Oh, that is tough because The Mummy is not good.

T.C.:

But we have to maintain canon on this Yeah. Because we wanna keep Tom Cruise. Right? Mhmm.

Jim:

Now these are not hard rules that you have to stick with, but things to consider. The the properties they had planned was Invisible Man. Johnny Depp was originally set to play the Invisible Invisible Man. Mhmm. And Bride of Frankenstein with no one attached.

T.C.:

I thought Angelina Jolie was

Jim:

attached that. Oh, was she? I I didn't know that.

T.C.:

Bride of Frank, Invisible Man. Okay.

Jim:

Those are the only two properties that I know for sure.

T.C.:

Wolfman starring Javier Bardem was the was in the

Jim:

middle. Okay. Well, know know one about it at

T.C.:

all already. So Universal Studios created the monster universe back in the, what, fifties?

Jim:

It was Yeah. Kinda accidentally. Well, just yeah. Lon Chaney and Boris Karloff. And it's because Frankenstein kinda took off as a a character in a franchise, so they just made a ton of Frankenstein movies.

Jim:

And then started making a that works. Dracula movies. And also, it worked on its own. It wasn't just a spin off.

T.C.:

So they had Dracula

Jim:

The Man.

T.C.:

The Mummy, Invisible Man, Creature of the Black Lagoon Yep. And Bride of Frankenstein. Is that everybody?

Jim:

Yeah. There's probably a couple.

T.C.:

Like a couple. But we'll

Jim:

consider I know that when I was watching the mummy, they had a couple, like, little nods or or Easter eggs for, like, there was a creature of the black lagoon hand in a jar. Oh.

T.C.:

So I

Jim:

don't know if that meant that that was done and over with or if that means there's more and that's just one hand or it's a weird kind of a weird Easter egg, but

T.C.:

there was. Is the studio demanding that we just halt the movie for five minutes to set up all the, like, new stuff? Or the fact that they already did that in the mummy, we don't have to do that anymore?

Jim:

I don't think we have to do that anymore because because those are supposed to be a part of a part of canon.

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

Like, for example, I write this dark universe, what exists so far is not amazing, but I loved the original mummy 1999.

T.C.:

Oh, the Brendan Fraser. You like the you only like the first one. I only

Jim:

like the first one. I man, I love that movie. And they they nod to that franchise in the mummy. The the The book of the dead. The character.

Jim:

Yeah. She I I forget her name, but she hits a dude with the book and drops it to the floor, the camera's like, look. It's this thing. This is then never references it again. So does it?

Jim:

Small side tangent about that. The thing that really kinda makes me laugh about that is that means in this universe, there are multiple evil mummies in the history of this world. There's a lot. Just the ancient world was full of evil people getting mummified.

T.C.:

And I love the whole conceit that it's like, Oh, you're so evil. We're gonna just mummify you in case so you can be resurrected kinda like

Jim:

Well, so the first one the first one, right, the Brendan Fraser one, it was, oh, you're so bad.

T.C.:

We're gonna

Jim:

curse you. Yeah. Hemotype, you're we're gonna curse you. And then if anyone unburies you, screw them. And and I think it was supposed to be kinda similar to the new one.

Jim:

With the new one, it's less the mummy curse. You one buried the mummy, so screw you. It's more this mummy is super evil. We can't kill it. We can only immobilize it.

Jim:

Oh, I see. Don't ever unleash it or it's gonna wreak havoc. And then it did, and it just so happened it found Tom Cruise. And it's like, Tom Cruise, you're you're the one. Come come here, and I'm going to turn you into the the bad guy.

Jim:

The bad mummy guy.

T.C.:

Actual dialogue from the movie.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

So I I so I will ask you in in this terms of this this encompassing dark universe. Mhmm. Is the Brendan Fraser trilogy canon to this universe, or is that prop just an Easter egg for people noticing it? They

Jim:

did very clearly show. I prefer it as an Easter egg, but if you have an idea on how you wanna incorporate it, the studio's willing to hear it.

T.C.:

Okay. There's a train going by right

Jim:

now, is

T.C.:

definitely making

Jim:

it in the recording. Yeah. That's great. I can try to repeat the line I just said. No, no, no, that's fine.

T.C.:

Like The Mummy and I really like The Mummy. I think it's a great successor to Indiana Jones in terms of the fun action adventure movies, which kind of don't exist anymore. I think Mummy Returns is fine. The third Mummy is awful. I remember sitting there going like, God, this is bad.

T.C.:

Who wrote this? And then Alfred Gough and Miles Millar's name come up and I'm like, I watch Smallville. So not canon. We're just gonna consider Dracula Untold and Mummy as part of their setup for the dark universe with the plans of doing the ones forward. Do you have you if you're challenging me, I'm ready to go.

T.C.:

Sure. But if you have some other stipulations or any, where where do you go

Jim:

with this? Not not currently. I I have I have nothing. Right now Okay. Right now, I'm open to to any ideas.

Jim:

Crank

T.C.:

the knuckles. Crank the

Jim:

knuckles. Oh, that was Wow. You actually did. Did.

T.C.:

That's not normal. And I'm dead. Okay. So here's here's my and I feel like they kinda went this way with the mummy. Go ahead.

Jim:

I I remembered. I did have an idea on on how to kinda once you have all the individual movies Mhmm. I had a couple ideas for how you do the Avengers style bring them all together movie.

T.C.:

Okay. Good. Then

Jim:

I didn't I didn't have necessarily the the individuals.

T.C.:

Okay. I'm gonna give you the I think I have a concept for how we do the individuals. That being said, is the endgame for the dark universe to have the Avengers movie where they're all there?

Jim:

Well, that's a good question. Mhmm. Because because originally, was thinking, because, right, that's the template everyone's trying to copy. Like, oh, let's do we wanna do our version, but it doesn't have to be.

T.C.:

I think we can go there. And if you have a concept for how to bring them all together

Jim:

I have a concept that I think would be really cool, also really hard to pull off and maybe kind of not something many people would wanna watch.

T.C.:

Okay. Well, let's see.

Jim:

So, know, that's always a good thing.

T.C.:

The studio loves this. Oh, you're pitching me an idea you don't think people are gonna like?

Jim:

I mean, please continue. I think I I think a bunch of people would find it interesting.

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

I can think of precedent in Hollywood as to why this would be something to pursue. Mhmm. But I can also see reasons why people would say, well, why would you do that?

T.C.:

Well, okay. We'll we'll get to that with the bring them together Avengers movie, but we need to get to the Avengers movie, which means we have Dracula, we have the mommy, we need, The Wolfman, The Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Invisible Man, Bride of Frankenstein, a couple more of these. We don't might not need all four. Here's my pitch for you. Okay?

T.C.:

And this is gonna it's it's a slight it's a deviation from what they've already had, but I think they there's there's a precedent for this and how they treated Tom Cruise in The Mummy. Mhmm. So I think have a movie come out. Let's go what's what's a good I think The Creature from the Black Lagoon or the wolf man is the way to go here. We need a we need a creature.

T.C.:

We need we need a thing. Okay. My pitch is that they're not the main protagonist. They're not the main character. They are the antagonist, which is kinda what the mummy was.

T.C.:

Right? The mummy's the title character, but she's the bad guy. And Tom Cruise is being absorbed to her.

Jim:

Right? Yeah. And he becomes the mummy. If I if I understand Dracula and Toled as well, it's so it's also sort of he's he's a root an anti hero

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

He's slash reluctant dark hero. He's a he's a dark hero. Like, we think he's a bad guy, but he totally did it for the good guy reason. His love.

T.C.:

Right. My suggestion is okay. And then this is all leading up to your Avengers movie, which I've I've anyone listening that there's I can I know some people will follow me on this, but we'll get we'll get there? Have a ragtag group of Goonies style, let's go, like, in their 20, maybe a cup maybe, like, 30, like, a young group of ragtag monster hunters. Like, in the vein of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, in the vein of everyone's got their shtick, like the smart guy and like sneakers with Robert Redford is where I'm thinking here, but they're going up against the wolf man or they're going up against hey.

T.C.:

Let's go creature of the black lagoon. Let's go Christopher Nolan set a precedent by making Raz Al Ghul and the Scarecrow his first villain in a Batman movie.

Jim:

Sure.

T.C.:

Who the hell knows who those two are? I mean, we know who they are and anyone listening to us knows who they are. But the public, Scarecrow and Raz Al Ghul were not in the 1960s Batman and they weren't in the Tim Burton universe. Who the hell are these characters? Yep.

T.C.:

That was really smart because you could focus on world building and character development on Batman, on Bruce Wayne going up against these who there's no preconceived notions on the scarecrow or Raz Al Ghul. Right? Mhmm. So creature from the Black Lagoon, let's get nuts. Let's have a small town being terrorized by this creature, and in comes these hunters, this group of paranormal believer.

T.C.:

And those are your main characters. Have some fun with it. Have overlapping dialogue. I'm not saying go goofy, goofy, wacky, but have some Spielberg level fun with this group of misfits taking care of this creature. And that's your move.

T.C.:

That's your singular movie. It's just these guys against this creature who's from the Black Lagoon. Don't don't even, like, be super obvious about this is the dark universe. It's the creature. You know the creature from the black like, that should be secondary to yes.

T.C.:

That's what it is. It's fighting the creature from the Black Lagoon, but it's about this, let's have some fun with this. Let's get dark. Let's let's have some a dark sense of humor. Kinda what people think they thought maybe was what Suicide Squad was supposed to be.

T.C.:

These guys don't have to be like white knight heroes. They're a bunch of misfits that are taking on this monster. Okay? K. Follow that up with, like, even even like it could be a standalone film.

T.C.:

We're talking Iron Man style here. We're not gonna have some big stop the movie to be like, guess what? This here comes Russell Crowe again. Here comes reference to Tom Cruise.

Jim:

Which from what I understand was the that that, agency.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

That that group was supposed to be the the through line between them all.

T.C.:

Yes.

Jim:

Yeah. I I agree. With the way they establish it in the mummy, that is a bad

T.C.:

through line. Just don't stop the movie to have Wonder Woman watch QuickTime files. That's not how you do this.

Jim:

Yeah.

T.C.:

Have your singular film, Iron Man one. That's how they started the Marvel Universe. That's how they need to start. Boom. You got this adventure movie.

T.C.:

Have some fun with it. Get some, like, B list some SNL alum. Get Key in there if you want. Whatever. Like, have some fun with it.

T.C.:

It's just a middle budget film that could be a blockbuster if you handled it right. And then maybe end it conjuring one style, where maybe after everything's said and done, it's, hey, we got our next assignment. We got someone hit up the message board and we have to go check. There's some weird invisible dude like taking and then boom, that's that roll credits so that you can come back, have another standalone style movie with these group of monster hunting folks. Okay?

T.C.:

Mhmm. And now they're in and even subvert the genre so it's not like the last one, which was a freak in the woods monster style creature from the Black Lagoon. Now take them into the city to go up against the wolf man or have them go up against, the the invisible man. Right? And bring back the cast.

T.C.:

Don't make it a true direct sequel where it's like, you gotta have seen the right? Go Incredible Hulk style where it's like, oh, you can just watch Hulk. It doesn't it doesn't you don't have to have seen Iron Man. They aren't even that connected until the closing credit sequence. Mhmm.

T.C.:

Okay? The the main characters of these movies is this group. Okay? And there's and I'm also studio, I know you're like, come on. We want the the monster as your star.

T.C.:

You cast Johnny Depp as the invisible man, but he's the bad guy. He's the one they're trying to defeat. So every time he's on screen, he gets to chew the hell out of the scenery. You sell the movie with him as the star, but it's about these nobodies trying to stop this somebody. And that works and that's meta leveling here.

T.C.:

You're so skeptical on this idea.

Jim:

A little bit. I also have an idea now for how I would do a creature from the Black Lagoon movie.

T.C.:

Good. We'll go back to that because this is all ramping up to getting all these you can do two, three, maybe four of these movies before you get to the big Avengers. As you get to

Jim:

three Right? Isn't the math five?

T.C.:

Yeah. You go Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Incredible Hulk, and Iron Man two Yeah. Before you get into Avengers. Yeah. Dude, this is not a dark universe that I'm building here.

T.C.:

No. It's not. I'm building the monster squad.

Jim:

Yeah. You are. And monster squad is great, and that would be a great movie to remake.

T.C.:

But they're not kids now. I'm saying

Jim:

Whether they are or not, I'd monster squad's great. Let's let's make a monster squad movie. Monster squad.

T.C.:

Well, the so that it's and we don't have to even call it monster squad. That's what I'm saying. Like, anyone

Jim:

would But that yeah. That's that's where you're that's that's the road you're going down, and I I like that idea.

T.C.:

Because then you have your Avengers style movie where it's now they have to go up against all the bad guys they've faced. And now something that I've been talking so much, Jim,

Jim:

about okay.

T.C.:

No. I I'm I got right stuff. Yeah. The thing that makes the Marvel Cinematic Universe work so well that no one else has been able to do is they lay they lay the groundwork like they're telling a TV series. That's episodic.

T.C.:

Like, we're watching season finales whenever the Avengers get together. Mhmm. Mid season finales when it's civil war. Yeah. Right?

T.C.:

Do that so that if you just treat it like episodic, don't try to force these through line connections. Just tell your singular episode. Sure. And have a hell of a lot of fun with it. So I don't I don't know if I'm meeting the studio demands at this point.

T.C.:

But if the monster is the star and it's just trying to stop the monster from doing it what it's doing, put the spotlight on the star playing the monster. So you can have Johnny Depp, the invisible man, or you can have Javier Bardem playing the wolf man, or whoever we're gonna cast now that Sure. By the time we get around to this I'm sorry, studio. Everyone's aged out. Pick someone cooler and sexier.

T.C.:

And then okay. So I've just talked for That's that's okay. Ten minutes straight. So what

Jim:

do you think,

T.C.:

Do like my concept here?

Jim:

It's it's pretty good.

T.C.:

Is the studio booting me from the room here?

Jim:

It's not booting you. It it it doesn't like that you've frankly sidelined the monsters. I That's Okay. That's supposed to be the the draw. That's supposed to be that's supposed to be what eventually comes together.

T.C.:

Well, I'll

Jim:

And I I get I totally get how making the the what should be villain of a movie a really hard thing to, like, this is what we're gonna keep following. Like, that's that's really tough. But, like, the whole the style of

T.C.:

the film, the tone of the film, the settings, the look, everything is built around who the villain is.

Jim:

Right?

T.C.:

And any any, like, visionary director who who will be able to look. Van Helsing's not a good movie, but, it was built around the Gothic idea of Dracula. Right? So everything about Van Helsing from the clothing to the stylist is all Gothic Dracula stuff. Did look pretty good.

T.C.:

Yeah. So to have the creature from the Black Lagoon, all everything is built. The villain sets the entire tone of the film, the look of the film. So they're the star. You sell the movie on them.

T.C.:

And having that audience applause moment that you get from old school theater and whatnot of the star suddenly showing up, How how placating to ego is that? Like, oh, just your introduction into the movie is gonna have people standing on their feet in the movie theaters. Like, it's all about you. You're the star. You're the main character.

T.C.:

You're on every poster, and it's about these guys trying to stop Sure.

Jim:

Well and and the thing is so that's that's sort of the angle I would go with. I I wouldn't make the monster squad the like, for for the creature from the Black Lagoon.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

So the way I do that is is kinda what you said. It's about these monster hunters, and They come into this tear this area because they've heard stories about this creature from the Black Lagoon. Mhmm. And they go to investigate. And so what the story ends up being is they're investigating this creature that keeps attacking this town.

Jim:

And the reason it's attacking this town as they investigate is they find out it's it's pretty cliche, but it works. We keep going back to it because it works. Maybe it's not cliche. It's archetypal.

T.C.:

Yeah. We're beyond cliches here. It's an archetype. What's the what's the archetype?

Jim:

There is a corporation of some kind that is messing with the environment, which is driving the creature from the Black Lagoon to lash out at the local community.

T.C.:

Oh, you're touching into some of them liberal themes A bit. Of global warming.

Jim:

A little bit. And I I realized as I was coming up with this that this could potentially lead into one of my other grand Avengers ideas. Okay. But not necessarily the way I originally intended, but it it still could. So so what they end up finding out is that the monster is being motivated by this other bad guy who's messing with things.

Jim:

So then they're all like, oh, no. That's not great. And so now they're not necessarily trying to

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

Right? So it doesn't become a, oh, we gotta help the fish man, but it kinda does. It's it's it's it's like It's a little of both.

T.C.:

You know what? There's a in this dark universe, and I know I removed it from Canon, but I'm putting it back into Canon, it's the Scorpion King because Imhotep and Rick have to team up to stop the Scorpion King at the end of Mummy Returns. Well, I don't like that now. But Okay. I like you're saying that So

Jim:

so that that's what I would do with Creature from the Black Lagoon. And then what you end up finding out at the end like, I'd I'd have there there'd be a b plot where the creature, like, seemingly falls in love with, like, the the woman and the monster squad or whatever. So that actually I think becomes a little key in a moment. You find out, like maybe this creature gets wounded or captured or killed and you find out there's more than one. Oh, no.

Jim:

It's not just one creature from a black lagoon. There's a whole frigging possibly society of them.

T.C.:

And it's just the the one that got oh, boy.

Jim:

Yeah. And and perhaps Okay. The the the woman who had had become in in not she hasn't become enthralled that the monster became enthralled with. She can somehow like like a little bit sort of be like, how about you guys attack them? So she kinda like the queen of the the creatures.

T.C.:

And I Like princess lay with the Ewoks. Yeah. There you go. I'm studio asking.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah. Kinda like that. I'm not married to that. That's that's not a thing that I think is necessary, but something like that.

Jim:

So and and you end you end with a right. So you get an awesome fight. You get an awesome third act where all of these creatures are attacking gag.

T.C.:

Like, just the the one monster standing there like, it's just one. And all of sudden Yeah. All of these things bubbling out of the water. And even the monster squad is like,

Jim:

oh, shit. Oh, oh, there you go. It is the the original one is captured by the corporation who have paramilitary troops

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And things like that. So then when the army of of creatures comes out, there's this big fight going on in our monster squad. They can't sway this fight one way or another. So what they're doing is they're basically sneaking through trying to get into the corporation to free the original creature who is the leader of the group.

T.C.:

Thinking like Super eight style where the military is just like the whole place is going nuts. Kinda, yeah. And they're just running through. Quick little tangent here to ask you in terms of what the studio is asking. How funny I think that having a really sharp sense of humor in this, delivered by the written the right way.

T.C.:

Think like I don't wanna get so lampshady we verge into, like, a Boy Scout's Guide to the Apocalypse where it's like, I get it. Insert joke here. But could you You know what?

Jim:

I watched that recently. I actually kind of miss that type of humor.

T.C.:

Okay. So you're okay with it?

Jim:

No. Not not for this. I just in general. As as a movie fan No. Not for I kinda I kinda miss that type of humor in movies.

Jim:

I feel like that's that's a type of low level It's hanging low hanging fruit. Yeah. That we haven't really seen very much of in the past decade or

T.C.:

two. So would you have a character say something like, hey, where'd Sarah go? She's been shape of watered.

Jim:

Sure.

T.C.:

Yeah. That's That would be okay. Like, having I think Dave Dave Dave Fuler. Dan Fuler.

Jim:

Yeah. The the level of humor I would want well, actually, so we talked about Halloween, the new Halloween earlier. Mhmm. They actually have a few jokes that are kind of like that that don't ruin the the tone, I I think, of of the movie they set up. So I think jokes like that would work just fine.

Jim:

But the level of humor and and campiness, I'm imagining, you actually kind of mentioned it earlier, is the original The Mummy. Mhmm. Right? Make it a little more of an adventure because it's about

T.C.:

this fun.

Jim:

Yeah. It's about this group of of people who everyone thinks is weirdos because they're weirdos going out into the swamp, right Right. To to investigate this thing no one believes in. So, yeah, they're they're already gonna be sort of these misfits.

T.C.:

I I I thought of another way. And since we're on talking about the group here, the we're they're the monster squad. I'm not gonna lie. That's immediately where my head went with this. Another way to sell this studio wise to to say, no.

T.C.:

You're you're monster who you have playing the main character is the star. The monster squad are not attractive. I don't I'm not saying a bunch of but don't cast sexy Chris Hemsworth. Sure. Right?

T.C.:

Cast Judah Freelander. Like, you don't like Yeah. That's that's a nice, like, subtle way to make them very normal and play with Like,

Jim:

I don't that kind of insults him a bit. But kinda like in the mummy Mhmm. Tom Cruise's sidekick character.

T.C.:

Yeah. It's it's Nick from New Girl. Yeah.

Jim:

That type of thing. Right? He's obviously he's not going to anywhere outclass Tom Cruise.

T.C.:

Exactly. The spot we're

Jim:

talking about. Not equating Judah Friedlander

T.C.:

to him

Jim:

and the creature from the Black Lagoon to Tom Cruise. That's really rude to Judah Freeland.

T.C.:

I'm sorry. Of all the people I could have pulled from him, what I was thinking was like 30 Rock, thinking sort of tangent into Tina Fey's autobiography where she talks about Friends was the exception, not the rule. No one wants to watch a bunch of beautiful people

Jim:

for that. From from what I under because I know I know you're going I I interrupted you, which is a terrible thing to do as a person and probably on a podcast because you didn't get to finish your point.

T.C.:

I'm the studio audience. How dare you, sir? I am wearing

Jim:

a suit. You are. He is he is wearing a suit.

T.C.:

Lay him down. Yeah. You were saying?

Jim:

Well, I do the the point you were making was friends is is attractive people.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And Tina Fey said that that's an exception. Yeah. I I remember I watched a thing that was like, oh, we're we're studio where the studio and studios were amazed by this revelation that you could do comedy with beautiful people.

T.C.:

Who knew? The thing is

Jim:

so people like Tina Fey and and, you know, us less attractive folk are gonna be like, yeah. No. That's an exception. Whereas the studio is like, yeah. No.

Jim:

We're gonna keep doing this. Keep making funny Fabulous. Pretty funny people.

T.C.:

So a way to help sell this to the studio in terms of like, no. The monster's a star. You're you're be the only beautiful face in this freaking movie is your poster guy is Johnny Depp is Javier Bardem is Angelina Jolie.

Jim:

Now the difference here is I don't think we can get a pretty person, a famous person to be the monster. Well because all you

T.C.:

have say is

T.C.:

shape

T.C.:

what? All you have to

Jim:

say is

T.C.:

shape what? Like Doug Jones obviously is not known for his just being Doug Jones. He's always a creature feature. But I think being able to be like, I mean, people are going to be asking how long you were in the

Jim:

makeup chair. Like you've Oh, so It's like

T.C.:

a prestige to be like, Oh, tell us about the eight hours you spent in I

Jim:

would way rather spin that than to cave to doing a transformation, a person who can transform.

T.C.:

Like get a character actor, saying?

Jim:

Oh, you're saying No, get a person who morphs?

T.C.:

Oh, no, no, no, no. I don't wanna see that. I don't wanna see that. No, no, I meant transformation in the chair. The creature from Black Lagoon is a creature.

Jim:

It's gotta be. He's not

T.C.:

a mutant who's like, I'm a pretty handsome guy. Because we get that with the wolf man and we get that with doctor Jekyll and Hyde. We can't have it with all of our monsters.

Jim:

Yeah. Is Well, I mean, so far we have. I'm I'm sure Dracula is the pretty man who turns into bats. Yeah. We have the mummy who's a pretty man who turns into a corpse.

T.C.:

Well, here, let me ask you this. So I we have because you asked for a franchise of films, we kinda have to, like, move into other. I think there's a cool movie to be had here. It's a middle middle budget movie, so they're saving money there. Use the most of the money to get your star to play the creature.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Having that reg tag group, you

Jim:

And the what they end up playing in further movies is is sort of the the creature Mhmm. The creature's sort of comedic sidekick. Like, the whole squad is, we gotta follow this. This is

T.C.:

This is our next next obstacle, next, like Yeah.

Jim:

So it's not that the movie follows them. It's that they're that comedic relief along for the ride. Yeah.

T.C.:

And they're the main characters in terms of we follow them. But I wanna in terms of like But The the overall character development

Jim:

Mhmm.

T.C.:

Is strictly based on the creature. Finding out what the creature is, why the creature is, what they're doing. The whole story is about the monster, why it's there. The character development with our reg tag group is limited to the amount of character development that happens in the ghostbuster original two ghostbusters. Practically none.

T.C.:

Sure. Those characters do not go through major changes or arcs. They will be the constant in these films. Sure. The character that gets the story and the the development and the acting challenge is your monster.

T.C.:

Sure. Yeah. Okay. So do do you wanna I would watch this creature from the Black Lagoon movie with with knowing that there's more to come. Sure.

T.C.:

Let's take a quick break here and then we will come back. So Okay. Here's a quick break. Here's a quick ad. Ads are fun.

T.C.:

Right, Jim?

Jim:

Super fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

Okay. We'll be right back. Hi there. I'm David.

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And I'm Kate.

T.C.:

And we're the hosts of another Zelda podcast.

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There are so many good podcasts out there, and some of them in particular concern the Legend of Zelda.

T.C.:

That's right, Kate. And we are another one of them. We that is actually the name of our show, another Zelda podcast.

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And in our show in particular, we talk about some of our favorite dungeons, characters, boss battles. We have top 10 lists.

T.C.:

Yeah. We do deep dives on game design and production aspects of the different Zelda games.

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And we talk about our own experiences. We do some review episodes, talk about our challenges, our struggles, and our victories.

T.C.:

That's right. You know, really just almost anything that has to do with Zelda, we like to talk about it. A new episode comes out every other Friday, and you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, and YouTube.

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And you can also check out our episodes on our website, anotherZeldapodcast.com.

T.C.:

That's right. Alright. We will see you there.

Jim:

Okay. Bye.

T.C.:

Okay. And we're back. We are back. Okay. So we are continuing with the dark universe here.

T.C.:

We've really just talked about the creature from the Black Lagoon, but I think we've laid some groundwork. I'm glad you're on board with my monster squad destination here.

Jim:

I still think I've I've given I imagine them with a smaller role Mhmm. In the overall thing.

T.C.:

Well, the star of the film is the creature. It's the monster. I mean, let's if we go into, say, the wolf man being next, a different location, different and I don't know if Wolfman's the next is I guess if you think in terms of go, like, look at the Batman franchise, you start with Scarecrow and then you go to the freaking Joker. So, like, the movie to follow the creature from the Black Lagoon, what's the most prestigious? Frankenstein?

T.C.:

Like, having a new Frankenstein monster? Probably. Yeah. Well,

Jim:

now also, the the movies, they originally had planned. They had I was surprised they had bride of Frankenstein planned.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Which gave me some ideas. Oh, okay. Well, thoughts about or suspicions about where they they might be going with things. Mhmm. So if, right, if they're if they got Dracula, they got the mummy.

T.C.:

Oh, Jekyll and Hyde. That was the that's the we even brought Russell Crowe multiple times.

Jim:

Were were they gonna give him his own movie?

T.C.:

I don't know, but he's a main character. He's a he's Russell Crowe as part

Jim:

of Doctor.

T.C.:

Jekyll. Sorry. Continue.

Jim:

I sure sure would like to drop that thread. Well, we can. We we we could. Yeah. Well, maybe the studio might demand keeping it.

Jim:

I just I'll fucking make it work. Suppose I shouldn't swear.

T.C.:

Fugging. Fugging. Yeah. That's what I should Hollywood term. Oh.

T.C.:

I don't know. It's It is. It's inside baseball here.

Jim:

We don't It's true. Yeah. We don't need to

T.C.:

What's baseball? Okay. Oh, you mean, like, league of their own?

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah. Just like that. So what what that made me think is, well, what are they saving Frankenstein for? And my thought was, oh, maybe he's the big villain that everyone has to come together to fight.

Jim:

That was was an idea. I don't know if that's that's actually true. I'm not actually that partial to that one. So I don't have thus far, I don't have many ideas for the rest of them. I like the idea of Invisible Man.

Jim:

So we were just out in the swamp out in the the the country. Yeah. I like the idea of it being in a city. Mhmm. That's

T.C.:

where going from Bayou.

Jim:

The mummy's been in a it went from multiple cities. Right? It it spanned all of Africa to to Europe. Mhmm. But I like the idea of the Invisible Man being in a city and sort of playing with that theme of you're invisible in the city.

T.C.:

Right.

Jim:

And our character will be literally invisible. I don't know where else to go

T.C.:

with that. Yeah. That's the the the strange thing about Invisible Man is what's interesting about him. You don't get to see him. It's more of a visual effects character.

T.C.:

So find so something that I don't know if we'll be able to just figure this out right here, but some whoever the genius was that figured out how to do in helmet vision for Iron Man is a that's amazing. Sure. How they fit who I I don't know if that's I can't think of, like, precedent to that, but it's so standard now. You see inside Tony Stark's head or inside the helmet in helmet vision and you just accept it like, Yeah, that's what it looks like inside the helmet.

Jim:

Mecca shows is all I can think of.

T.C.:

Yeah, but even then you

Jim:

that film But you're in a giant thing.

T.C.:

Is just the Yeah. So trying to come up with a way to do the invisible man, this

Jim:

seems Something like that.

T.C.:

This is really silly to say, but how do you see him? Oh, here's how you do it. Yeah?

Jim:

You do Lord of the Rings vision. You you so you see him and you see him how he sees the world being invisible. Okay.

T.C.:

Yeah. Having some

Jim:

Oh, that works. And so okay. So what you do Oh, dude. Yes. Have a bunch of we have a we have a bunch of different characters.

Jim:

You know what we don't have yet? We don't have our sneaky guy, and that is exactly what Invisible Man would be. Mhmm. You make it a heist movie.

T.C.:

The Invisible Man's a heist film. Okay. Now, is our monster squad trying to stop the heist?

Jim:

Our monster squad is not in this movie, TC.

T.C.:

What? Why not? I'm telling you, they need to be the through No.

Jim:

They are not the through line. I don't like the idea of there being a the to me, the dark universe is about the monsters. Right. The and and so you don't have a through line. This they

T.C.:

are Coulson. What? They are Coulson.

Jim:

Coulson and Coulson appears in the stinger of several movies

T.C.:

at best. Okay. Okay. Fine. You're not giving me the master squad.

Jim:

No. I gave it you get it for

T.C.:

Creature from the Black Well, they Not even worth having. Because well, because the

Jim:

other thing is Jekyll Hyde Mhmm. And his frigging organization

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

They're supposed to be the through line Okay. So through the movies. So

T.C.:

if you're doing Invisible Man, the heist film I'm actually okay. I'm okay with this. I'm okay.

Jim:

We're we're brainstorming here. I I'm I'm not married

T.C.:

yet. Let's

Jim:

let's throw some ideas out, see what sticks. Mhmm. So the corporation we introduced in creature Mhmm. It is actually sort of an antagonist group. Mhmm.

Jim:

It is a a group that is counter to our I can't remember the name of the the the investigator group, the from the mummy. The Jekyll and Hyde group.

T.C.:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:

So the Jekyll and Hyde group are the good guys, the quote, unquote good guys trying to yeah. They're shield. They're they're trying to hunt down these these abnormal things and and evil things and stop them from messing up the world. And the corporation is interested in getting ahold of them and using them to their own ends.

T.C.:

So they're Hydra? Yeah. Okay.

Jim:

So what we do in Invisible Man is this is where we start having them meet each other. The invisible man is not necessarily an agent of, but being manipulated by somehow the corporation and being sent to steal something or some things from the Jekyll and Hyde group.

T.C.:

Is he an agent? Like, in like, he's just on board. He's an agent working for the bad guys and doesn't know it.

Jim:

I'm not imagining that. I'm imagining he's being manipulated.

T.C.:

Okay. So so Yeah.

Jim:

He would like to get out from under the thumb of them. Mhmm. Right. Because the movie also needs to be an introduction. So we need to see the the invisible man become the invisible man.

Jim:

Right. Ugh.

T.C.:

I like I'm ucking because, like, origin stories have been done so much. And it to me, it's like, get either the origin story is the best and everything that follows is no good or you breeze through the origin so you can get to the good stuff. I don't know, Invisible Man's tough because what do you do? I think you're onto something with the heist. I think you're onto something with making him this, like, manipulated agent where he kinda has to, like, pivot from for or against kind

Jim:

of So then now he's like a now he's like a double agent even. Right? He doesn't necessarily care about the agenda of the Jekyll and Hyde organization. Mhmm. And he cares about being free from this this corporation.

Jim:

So he goes along with it, but he's looking for ways to get to to to get out from under it. Mhmm. And and, yeah, I'd this that's that's a conglomeration of loose ideas, but I'm I'd I'd be interested. I would too. You you kinda you tell me those those those factors are in the soup here.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

I'm like, alright. You you have my interest.

T.C.:

You know what would help? If there was a group that we saw in the last movie that could bring the audience back in knowing it was a sequel

Jim:

of right. The corporation.

T.C.:

No. Get them out of here. I wanna see guys in a van. I want the Scooby gang in this. Know what's gonna happen?

T.C.:

You go ahead and make Bugs Life, I'm making ants. You know what, ants sucks. You make ants, I'm making Bugs Okay. Okay. So let's not go much further than that.

T.C.:

I'm curious what your big all encompassing Avengers movie is. Okay. So I will stop pushing the monster squad, but I wanna I Sure. I might I think that's the way to link all these is to follow this group of characters. You can still make the movie stand alone.

T.C.:

I'll stop pressing. I'll stop selling.

Jim:

I'll pass that the studio, if you are going to push that, I'm going to insist that being your Jacqueline Hyde group, which still works. You can have them be a a, like, like, a a a cell, like, an a a squad from from the organization in the the the creature from the black lagoon movie.

T.C.:

Get them recruited in the next one. Okay. If if if you're

Jim:

if we can find a consistent

T.C.:

premise is have them brought in.

Jim:

I just I I think you're you're, I I know you don't see it that way, but I think you're undermining the, the main character star power of your monsters

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

By creating this through line because they become your Ripley, and then you can't have an alien movie without your Ripley.

T.C.:

Without the the the group, the the misfits. Okay. I can I can see that? And how I would try to pitch it to the studio

Jim:

Sure.

T.C.:

Because I use the Goonies as an example. I would pitch it more using stranger things. It's the the two seasons we've seen are stranger things as of this recording. It's the monster in it's the Demogorgon in the first one, and it's whatever the hell that second one was. That's the the star monster creature and you're following the kids on their adventure to try to stop it.

Jim:

But the main kids are your kids.

T.C.:

Okay, I'll watch myself into that today. Okay. So what's your big avenger? How do bring

Jim:

So this I think I think these ideas, I have two or two of them? Mhmm.

T.C.:

Two of

Jim:

them, think, are I I ideally, they will sell you on why you don't have those as your main character.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

So the first idea is since we're making the monsters, the bad guys, our main characters

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

You're essentially flipping flipping the script. I kinda don't like that phrase, but I'm gonna use it a lot. So your villain When I turn the

T.C.:

script over, it's just blank on the other side. Like the invisible man, continue. That's good. Did you see what he did there? A 20 pages of empty pages.

Jim:

Yeah. Yeah.

T.C.:

Catch your invisible man's

Jim:

Oh, god.

T.C.:

I wrote invisible ink. Get the hell out of my office.

Jim:

Give this man a raise. He's a genius.

T.C.:

Good to hear. Sorry.

Jim:

You have your villain, the the the high high level villain, your your Loki

T.C.:

You're Loki. Okay.

Jim:

Or or or Thanos, if if you don't whichever. Your your main your main bad

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

Is Van Helsing. Yeah. But he's the good

T.C.:

okay.

Jim:

No. You see what I did there?

T.C.:

So then They're the bad guys, so make your good guy the bad guy, like, antagonist. Okay. Okay. Continue.

Jim:

So so I this is the idea that I that I said.

T.C.:

Don't know how

Jim:

I don't yeah. Okay. This is the many people would would go for this because because, but but Van Helsing's the good guy.

T.C.:

Let me let me studio adjust my tag here. Who do you cast in the Van Helsing role to sell?

Jim:

That's not my role. I have I have TC for that.

T.C.:

Oh, boy. Yeah.

Jim:

But what I'm imagining so so how do we vilify Van Helsing? How do we vilify the guy trying to stop monsters?

T.C.:

Right. The bad guys

Jim:

that we've seen in

T.C.:

five movies

Jim:

up to this point. And have it not be the Jekyll and Hyde have him not be connected to the Jekyll and Hyde organization. Maybe he's actually at the at the the head of the the our evil corporation.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And, essentially, it's it's a consolidation of power. He's not he's it's being spun that they're trying to do the right thing by eliminating these monsters and using their powers for the better of mankind. Mhmm. But it's it's really just trying to to gain power over all of these things and to to essentially commodify their their uniqueness and their their power Mhmm. To gain control.

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

Global domination. Domination. Domination. It doesn't matter if you say you're doing it for the better of mankind. You're still subjugating people.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And so you you you kinda show it that way in the movie. So that's how you I I think I would begin to vilify Van Helsing and and whatever organization he has. Mhmm. And that's why the monsters have to come together to basically defend freedom.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Not like I'm not loving this.

Jim:

Yeah. It it feels I I doesn't

T.C.:

love it either.

Jim:

No. I I think it could work. Like I said, that's a hard that's a hard sell. Yeah. To me, I think I think the the big bad and and I I'm I'm now thinking of ideas on how to connect it back to our previous ones.

Jim:

Mhmm. Not necessarily the ones that have already come out, which would be nice, but I I can't think of how to do it, but the other ones we're going to develop. Right. So most of his works are now in the public domain. I think you bring in Cthulhu.

Jim:

You bring in a whole new monster. There's no for the the the big villain.

T.C.:

Is this your second idea? Like, your first video was Van Helsing. Yeah. Van Helsing doesn't doesn't really yeah.

Jim:

I think it's harder to make work. Yeah. You could cast an actual person Mhmm. In that role, but I think it's harder to make work also because, like, oh, it's the good guy, but the bad guy. That that's hard to do.

Jim:

Yeah. This one is the reason this works is Cthulhu is coming into our reality from another reality. Right? Your he's portals are being opened. It doesn't have to be Cthulhu.

Jim:

You could make up a different one if you really wanted. The whole point the whole point of

T.C.:

one yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. The problem with that is Cthulhu is kind of already in our domain. That's technicalities. Don't need to worry about that. What's happening is a giant portal is being opened in a terrible, terrible monster god

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

The size of a city Mhmm. Is coming into our reality going to destroy everything.

T.C.:

How do you stop a monster? With monsters.

Jim:

That's why they have to come together.

T.C.:

Dang squad. Fine. You only get your squad if Judah Freelander is He's unavailable. He's unavailable. So Cthulhu, the giant monster your

Jim:

is your Thanos.

T.C.:

Okay.

Jim:

And and that's why it's going to take the power of Dracula and the mummy and Mhmm. The Invisible Man. Invisible Man. This man's a

T.C.:

tough one

Jim:

because he's Invisible Man, I thought of how we're we're gonna retro. We're gonna change a little bit about that heist move.

T.C.:

We're gonna

Jim:

add a little more. So Invisible Man, once he's invisible, has his invisible vision and stuff like that. He starts seeing other invisible things. What else is invisible? Strange lines across the city.

Jim:

Weird portals are opening. The the maybe maybe we get the teasing of of certain creatures coming through, things like that. Mhmm. So the invisible man is gonna be very important later on in identifying and closing portals. He's going to be the character that maybe is able to cross over to those other worlds.

T.C.:

You know, they would need to go up against Cthulhu and what I will just assume are a Chitauri rip offs is an army to go against an army.

Jim:

Now that's that's true. However, the problem there is Cthulhu's army traditionally Mhmm. Are what are called deep ones, which are basically creatures from the Black Lagoon.

T.C.:

So fight creatures from the Black Lagoon. Basically. From the blacks of space. Boy, would that be a CG nightmare?

Jim:

So we

T.C.:

could Mashing them together. Well, if the creature from the Black Lagoon is, like, bright green. Black, my shirt is like a bluish green steel.

Jim:

So so right now, for me, the the big nerd wanting to maintain continuity and and and stuff with with what's come, I would it it feels more streamlined and synergistic to make the creatures from the Black Lagoon be deep ones.

T.C.:

Oh, okay.

Jim:

Meaning that they're the bad guys, and that's not great. But maybe maybe there's a reason there's a contingent of them that aren't. They're all like, yeah, we don't like our god, and we wanna wanna stop

T.C.:

him. Yeah.

Jim:

And that perhaps perhaps that relates to the female character that's been made queen of them or whatever. And so, well, we're gonna do what she says because plot.

T.C.:

Because she's Princess Leia and we're the Ewoks. Yeah. Everything is a deviation of existing source material.

Jim:

Yeah. And so we're

T.C.:

shit now.

Jim:

We're the Ewoks. We're gonna listen to princess Leia, and we're gonna turn on the giant Ewoks.

T.C.:

Mhmm. That's yeah. In the sky.

Jim:

Yep. Okay. So little if iffy there. Something could be worked out. There there I I think there's there's we could suss it out.

T.C.:

For in terms of this dark universe or specifically the the final team up film?

Jim:

Particularly, the the team up film in that particular angle, like, how that fits in.

T.C.:

I think having hints of Cthulhu in the second, third movie, like, that's that's the like, planning the Infinity Gem. Look. There's no doubt about anything. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is the most successful and only version of this. Yeah.

T.C.:

And everyone who's tried to mimic it has mimicked it incorrectly. That's why the DC Cinematic Universe failed. It's why the Dark Universe failed. They just have not followed the template closely enough.

Jim:

Well, it's partial partially because it wasn't a template. It was we made Iron Man and it was super successful. Let's make a couple more.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Hey. Let's start building this road toward that.

T.C.:

Yeah. Instead of, like, coming out the gate, like, get we're definitely doing an Avengers movie. Like Yeah.

Jim:

That's just

T.C.:

take your freaking time to lay the groundwork for this and earn it. Having to work with the studio that has demanded things in my experience as a writer, it often is we're gonna make four movies. Like, hold on, let's make one. You haven't made one, you don't deserve four. And so I think you're having Cthulhu be the big bad.

T.C.:

The only problem I can see from that is how do you go bigger than Cthulhu?

Jim:

Why would you go bigger?

T.C.:

You'd have to. Like, you have to escalate.

Jim:

But that's our that's our avenger. Oh, you're saying after that, what's what's our phase two?

T.C.:

Phase two. Right? Like

Jim:

Oh, there's so many there's so many that are bigger than Kithubu.

T.C.:

Good. We can worry about that. As long as you know that there's bigger down the line. So I think the the and the studio demanding so you demanded that the dark universe be built successfully to reach an Avengers level.

Jim:

I did have a third one Oh. That said, hey, we don't have to follow the Marvel template.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

I still don't know what the plot would be, so maybe that makes this a a a not working one.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But the third one is, let's not do that. Let let's do, like, basically, like a Royal Rumble. We're gonna have all the characters, and they're gonna fight. They're gonna be the bad guys.

T.C.:

Don't team up.

Jim:

And maybe your monster squad Yeah. Is our sort of central good guys who have to now navigate this giant fight between, what, five horrendously powerful beings? Six. Okay. So I'm glad you

T.C.:

like that idea. Now here's what I'm thinking. If we follow the monster squad to these movies. Right? If the dark universe is following this bunch of nobodies and it's always about the monster, every the aesthetic of the film, the star of the film is the monster that you you scoffed and I lost my train of thought.

T.C.:

It's just the damn look you've made.

Jim:

Sorry. Sorry. Is I don't even know what was

T.C.:

gonna say. Sorry. You you just hate the idea of the monster truck, which is fine.

Jim:

I don't hate it. I just I'm I'm worried about it being the through line through all of them. It's Like, I I don't mind them being there in that final movie.

T.C.:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Jim:

I don't think they should be first of all, they weren't they weren't in our Dracula movie. They weren't in our mummy movie.

T.C.:

Right. And now we're

Jim:

put And now we're suddenly gonna put them in all the movies. Thor

T.C.:

three fixed everything that came before it. So I'm just saying that there's a possibility that you can retroactively fix Sure. What's come before if even having Russell Crowe show up Nick Fury style at the end of creature of black goon and say, hey. Okay. We wanna recruit you.

T.C.:

And they're like, no. We don't work for you. You know

Jim:

what? I'm coming around. Mhmm. So the monster squad, Russell Crowe is on it. Put him

T.C.:

okay. He's the guy driving the van.

Jim:

Because at the end of the mummy Mhmm. The organization was was their their headquarters was pretty much destroyed.

T.C.:

So they got nothing left. Yeah. And so he's rebuilding with

Jim:

With what he has.

T.C.:

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Bring bring him in right from the get on here. There's already exists from the mummy.

T.C.:

And I think I feel like looking at something like the nice guys, Russell Crowe could be better utilized than the Doctor. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. Oh, dude, seriously. Yeah.

T.C.:

Add him to the group because he's got a secret they don't know. The fact that we know We

Jim:

already know. We know,

T.C.:

but they but his team doesn't know. He's the freaking Hulk.

Jim:

I feel like his team would

T.C.:

okay. I'm I keep having it having maybe one of the team like, hey. I know what know what I see it in your eyes. You're crazy. The thing is that, like, if you have them, if we follow them, if they are Eleven and Mikey and the gang that we see each episode of this franchise, you either contain the monster or you make peace with the monster.

T.C.:

They make peace with the creature of the Black lagoon and say, hey, you stay in the water, we'll stay out of the water. We cool? We cool. Right? And then having something like, say, the wolf man where it's like, hey, we cool?

T.C.:

We not cool. We not cool. Okay. We gotta lock him up. Okay?

T.C.:

He is contained. So then when you come to the big blowout movie and you've given either Gone Up Against Cthulhu together or Monsters Unleashed, which having them all escape, all the bad ones that they've contained escape, and they're terrorizing the world together, then you have your squad of heroes that we've seen every step of the way saying, We got go up against them again all at once. Let's see if our friends that we were nice to will come help us. Because then you have a Batman versus Superman style where it's half the monsters versus half the monsters. If you have, say, the wolf man and Dracula and the mummy, they're pissed off and they are teamed up and doing some bad stuff Mhmm.

T.C.:

Then you can have Creature from the Black Lagoon, Invisible Man who's sort of an antihero. And and So I don't know who I'm Bride of Frankenstein come in and be like, we'll work with you because you didn't lock us up the last time.

Jim:

Had an idea for bride of Franken like a like a plot for bride of Frankenstein as well. Fire. So I don't know much about I I unfortunately haven't seen bride of Frankenstein, but my idea would essentially pitch it as modern day, like like several of them. But she would be a a straight on protagonist. She is reanimated a lot like the Frankenstein's monster.

Jim:

Mhmm. But Frankenstein is out there still making more more of these these monsters. Mhmm. I realized that there's a couple franchises like Frankenstein franchises out there that do something similar. Mhmm.

Jim:

But heck with it. I'm gonna do it too.

T.C.:

We're gonna do it better.

Jim:

So bride of Frankenstein has made it her mission to hunt these things down. She's trying to find her husband

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

And to stop him.

T.C.:

Oh, man. Having your little groups sorry. I know. I'm trying to say if they if the cold open is the group, like, going up against a Frankenstein's monster, and then she shows up and just mops the floor and then leaves, and they're like, who the hell was that? We need to team up with her.

T.C.:

And then follow her through that. Like, always my group is the sidekicks, is the is the funny people, is the in over their head group.

Jim:

If we do If we do the group movie where they have to fight a big bad like Cthulhu or my odd Van Helsing one, if we have to do one where the monsters team up against a big bad, I don't monster the monster squad, they I I feel like they need to be less involved. If we do the one where it's the the big the big fight between the factions.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Yeah. The the Royal Rumble. I am okay. I am okay with them taking more of a center stage type thing.

T.C.:

I just thought I had a stinger for the big Avengers movie. If you if you can get on board for the monster squad, I just thought of a stinger.

Jim:

Because well, because the other thing is I actually think the Royal Rumble style matches the franchise better than trying to un un than trying to unveil a whole new universal monster that you're going to love that they're all going to fight. Yeah. Instead of doing that, going the classic route like where they had Frankenstein versus the wolf man is kind of what we're doing here. Like, we have this side versus this side. Uh-huh.

Jim:

And then we get to see these these fights as they as they pair off. And your monster squad because then I I like I like what you said. I'm not just gonna repeat it. You can rewind this thing and listen to it again if you really want to. Yeah.

Jim:

Yeah. I I like that. And thus, the monster squad, the the Jekyll Hyde group would need to be pushed forward a bit, which matches our existing properties of the mummy. Mhmm. So I'm leaning toward that one.

T.C.:

Here's your stinger for the the Avengers movie because we need to set up for phase two. Right? Okay. Kill the only, like, the the leader hero type of the group that was basically being mentored by Russell Crowe to take over the group, kill him in the Avengers or the Avengers, in the Royal Rumble, monster versus monster movie. Your stinger is reanimate him.

T.C.:

He's gonna be Frankenstein. Frankenstein's monster. So that if Frankenstein, the Doctor. Frankenstein gets away, he's the Baron Von Strucker type character.

Jim:

We gotta go

T.C.:

to Marvel. He's the best thing we can reference. Although anyone listening to this is like, who the hell is Baron Von Strucker? Yeah. He was in Avengers two, Age of Ultron.

T.C.:

Pay attention. Reanimate I'm just gonna call him Mikey. Like, reanimate him at the end

Jim:

and like, he's alive. He's alive.

T.C.:

And then that's your gonna be your basically muscle villain leading into what it would be the Monsters versus Monsters two. He doesn't come back to help them. He's just reanimated eyes open and we will bum bum bum. What's gonna happen from here? We don't need to think of phase two in its entirety right now, but I'm setting we don't have Frankenstein's monster in here.

T.C.:

Right. Yeah.

Jim:

Well, I suggested that many Frankenstein monsters. Right. But we don't necessarily because because, right, the bride of Frankenstein, they named the monster Frankenstein in the movies.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

I'm suggesting

T.C.:

The the fish people would go bad?

Jim:

No. No. They'd be good. Okay. Because they'd be directed by our our our queen.

Jim:

Right? Our our from from our monster squad who got involved in creatures from Black Lagoon.

T.C.:

Right.

Jim:

She so they'd be like, yeah. We'll we'll rally behind you to to save the world from bad shit. Because clearly, don't like bad stuff. Because clearly, they don't like

T.C.:

Infiltrators.

Jim:

Yeah. Right? Because that's what the corporation was doing in in in their movie. So with the the bad guy characters, I think the way you laid it out was the mummy, Dracula. Well, he's a defendant.

Jim:

It gets it gets a little weird because they're trying to make them bad guys, but good guys.

T.C.:

But you said the fish people versus the Frankenstein monsters.

Jim:

Versus the Frankenstein monsters. So so that's right. Those are our those are our nameless monsters, nameless faceless monsters fighting each other The we can then go to our iconic characters. So it'd be it'd be fishmen versus stitchmen. Yes.

Jim:

I just I like the idea of a reanimated female hero fighting a bunch of reanimated

T.C.:

all in for

Jim:

that. Other details. Like, the mummy has power over life and death. Right? He can desiccate people and raise them as as undead to fight his battles immediately.

Jim:

I like the idea that whatever Frankenstein does to reanimate corpses Mhmm. Makes them immune

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

To the mummy's powers. So Fight. Fight. Fight. So, yeah, so now we have a real fight there.

T.C.:

Yeah. But we don't specifically have bolts in the neck, green faced Frankenstein. Right? Like, bride of Frankenstein exists. You have your your could like, a bunch of reanimated Frankenstein monsters.

T.C.:

Mhmm. But specifically to create what will be the Frankenstein's monster in this franchise is your stinger, your post credit stinger in the Avengers, the in the monster versus monster movie. Mhmm. And it's the main character that was killed in that we've we've been with every step of the way. I just think it's a that would be the final little, like, comeback for phase two.

T.C.:

We're definitely gonna give you something cool.

Jim:

Okay. I'm I'm I'm not totally sold, but I'm not I'm not against it. Okay. On on the on the stinger bit.

T.C.:

Right. Right.

Jim:

Oh, okay. Everything else we've been talking about, I'd I'm I'm leaning more and more toward the monster versus monster ultra movie.

T.C.:

Yeah. Like, having the two sides going against each other. Because plus you can have, like, a traitor in the midst if, like, Invisible Man is not a powerful character.

Jim:

With his invisibility power, actually, I think that that makes him right. Because what we're doing is it's not just that he is what what we're doing with the power we're giving him, it's not just that he can't be seen.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

There there's something else. There's there's some some extra stuff there that we don't need to to actually, like, put our finger on his full power set. Mhmm. But, essentially, I I wouldn't wanna make him intangible, but he he would have something that allows him, his invisibility makes him on par with, like, these dudes like Dracula and the mummy where you can affect every living thing around you except for me while I'm invisible. So then so then I do things like Bamfin behind you and and try to do a stabby bit or or and then I disappear again.

T.C.:

Right? Yeah. Different things like that.

Jim:

So it's, not quite teleportation,

T.C.:

but teleportation. A little bit like that.

Jim:

I know

T.C.:

you're in here somewhere. Someone give me a bag of flour. Yeah. That's how we do it in these things. Right?

T.C.:

Someone give me a bag of flour. Shit. Give me a bucket of pudding. We have a bucket of pudding.

Jim:

Bucket of pudding. So I think I think he's he's not quite Hawkeye. Honestly, if anything Okay.

T.C.:

Black boy.

Jim:

From this group, I think Wolfman and Bride of Frankenstein clock in at our lesser powered ones. Bride of Frankenstein, we can do fun stuff like, ah, she has super strength because undead.

T.C.:

Yeah. Is she and I like it.

Jim:

Because resurrected. Not not undead, resurrected.

T.C.:

I do like that she's a a badass kickass female. I think there's something really cool there.

Jim:

And Wolfman yeah. Wolfman is well, he's Wolfman. I suppose you could make him the equivalent of, like, wolverine. Mhmm. Right?

Jim:

So it's just just kinda, like, really feral, really something like that. But otherwise, I I like the invisible man's power. I don't I don't think it's just, oh, you don't see him. You can you can do a little more with it.

T.C.:

Yeah. That. I like your idea of him being able to see things that he has, like He's a skill set we don't

Jim:

know about. I I don't wanna say that because other dudes have magic. I was gonna say he's like the doctor strange. That's not true. Mhmm.

Jim:

It's just he has the ability to to definitely see these these threads of of arcane energy Mhmm. And thus, you know, get around him.

T.C.:

He's the ninja of the group in a sense. So having the weird thing is about a lot of these characters is, like, I'm normal, and now I'm a freak of nature. Yeah. Now granted when the original Universal monster movie movies came about, it was it was during the Cold War era. It was a lot of like the outsider, the alien other, and that's what they all represented at the time.

Jim:

That's what a lot of horror movie monsters continue to represent. And I think

T.C.:

that moving into a current universe, one of the things that to help make this happen successfully is to stop trying to match it at a level budget wise and blockbuster wise as the Marvel films. I think that they that no one's gonna succeed ever again like Marvel did. I don't think anyone ever will.

Jim:

Not trying to do it.

T.C.:

Yeah. I think that it could accidentally happen, and I I think playing it safer with budgets and and the just not trying to reach straight for the top, but thinking like Ant Man and thinking like Doctor Strange's you'd brought up earlier. Thinking in a little smaller scope to get to that big scope, I think would be a big sell in how to to create this. They they pitched The Mummy is this summer blockbuster. We got Tom Cruise.

T.C.:

A plane's gonna crash. It's gonna be amazing. And so much special effects, we're gonna make this whole big universe. It's like, pump your brakes. They didn't stop walking into these things.

T.C.:

I complained about it earlier. Start with Iron Man one at a time. Build it build it slowly. And I think that having all these movies standalone and slowly starting to overlap and not making these $200,000,000 movies, take that $200,000,000 and make four films, Cut it out. I think that's the key here.

T.C.:

And making them vanity pieces for the monster will get star power. Sure. Right? I think that's another factor here. I I would dig something like this.

T.C.:

I think that having an adventure film, it's not aliens attacking, although Cthulhu technically is an ancient Oh. Universal alien being.

Jim:

Actually, I kinda. Maybe you save that for Wolfman. I was gonna say I kinda like the idea like like you brought up alien or or aliens. Kind of doing the the the timbre of of those movies for creatures in Black Lagoon would make some sense.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

But I kinda I kinda like what we've what we've laid out instead of making it so so serious and dark. Maybe doing something like that with the wolf man.

T.C.:

Having some fun with it?

Jim:

No. No. Make making it I know. I lost I lost my thought. I lost my train of thought.

Jim:

Cut cut this entire last minute out.

T.C.:

I I can. We're good. I don't know how to segue out of it.

Jim:

Me neither. Segue out of my void.

T.C.:

So let me so take us all the way back to the core of this. The studio asked us to create a dark universe that could succeed. Have we at least broached the possibility of that happening?

Jim:

I think so.

T.C.:

I think the fun of this that we didn't have in the last episode with DieHard is that we were pretty much all in on every idea each other pitched through DieHard. We disagreed on it a little bit here and We did. But that's part of the pitch process in terms of trying to convince you having the Everyman character existing in this fantastical world is the way to go. That I I pushed for it. I think I might have won you over a little bit.

Jim:

Little bit. It it depends on it depends on the the the path that the overall franchise takes. And I think the one we we landed on is the stronger one. Don't don't just copy the cinematic universe that exists. Try to make your own and ending it with a Royal Rumble.

Jim:

Man, that actually the more I think about it, that that's that's gonna be super cool. It it's And thing is

T.C.:

I don't care. I'm not a horror fan. I appreciate the history of these characters. These are all public domain legendary characters at this point. We can do anything with them, being able to pay homage to them while having some modern day fun with them, and bringing back the adventure film.

T.C.:

There aren't adventure films anymore like the Brendan Fraser Mummy, like Indiana Jones. They don't make movies like that anymore. And I think that's something I don't

Jim:

know if I completely agree.

T.C.:

Well, I mean, you could look at something like

Jim:

Guardian gonna take, like, an hour

T.C.:

to to to think of all the the actual They're all versions of the genre. Because you could say, Guardians of the Galaxy has a lot of Raiders of Lost Ark adventure element to it.

Jim:

The Jurassic World movies were supposed to be that. Yeah. I don't think they succeeded.

T.C.:

Yeah. But another fun to be had in here is to create that through line of this is the dark monster universe, but each movie has a different style to it in a a genre.

Jim:

I think I think that's what's important. Maybe it's just because, again, it's the one cinematic universe that's worked so far, but I think that's what Marvel did. And I think that's a good way to go. Marvel is it's a superhero movie, but it's this kind of

T.C.:

It's it's espionage. You got Winter Soldier. You got sci fi Star Wars with Guardians of the Galaxy. You got magic with Doctor Strange.

Jim:

Like You got a heist movie with Ant Man. Yeah. Yeah. All all these different things. And I think doing going that route.

Jim:

Right? So so you have a monster movie, but you you do that so it's a monster movie, but it's a heist movie. Right. It's a monster movie, but it's an adventure movie. Mhmm.

Jim:

It's a a how would you describe alien or aliens? Alien is just like a straight up horror

T.C.:

movie. Sci fi. Oh, alien is a horror sci fi horror.

Jim:

Mean, like, the characters have to go in and there's there's and they're they're gonna kinda oh, god. Maybe that no. That's maybe that's what do. Oh, here here's a pitch for a wolf man.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Have you seen the gray? Yeah. Do the gray, but instead of wolves chasing down dudes

T.C.:

Mhmm. It's wolf men. Trying to run running, escaping, we're doomed here. Yeah. That's a great movie.

T.C.:

I don't know if that's a movie that sells to a mainstream audience, but and and Well,

Jim:

the the so the reason I was originally thinking aliens and why that led to the gray is in aliens, it's this group of marines goes to this planet. Mhmm.

T.C.:

And then they're picked off.

Jim:

Yeah. And then they're picked off as they try to escape. Yeah. Right? Do that with Wolfman.

Jim:

You have a group that goes out. I don't know. Yeah. It has to be. It has to be our our monster squad.

Jim:

They go in Yeah. And then they get picked off one by one. It's not like what happened.

T.C.:

You're killing them off.

Jim:

Pretty much. Yeah.

T.C.:

Not all of them.

Jim:

Not all of them. Half. It's it's a group of whole new people. Like, who are you guys? We're the new ones.

Jim:

Oh, it's I don't know. Somehow somehow you you make that work. They're they're you're gonna have extras. Even though it's a plucky new group, there's not much left to the organization. They're gonna have they're gonna have red shirts.

T.C.:

They asked for more money. We're killing you in this movie. James Marsden's getting killed halfway through.

Jim:

Love James Marsden. I think I I I think you do something like that. So that way, the wolf man isn't because because you're gonna end up it's wolves, so you're out in the country.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

You don't have to do it that way, but I I like the idea of wandering into the wolf's territory and then the wolf starts starts getting you because this guy's not a friendly guy. It's a predator.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

Right? So Okay.

T.C.:

I just I I think there's an an an there's an opportunity to have a lot of action adventure fun in here to hit. I Well, and I

Jim:

think the mummy, like like, it didn't succeed,

T.C.:

but I didn't think it was that

Jim:

bad. No. No. No. It's There

T.C.:

there's a few

Jim:

things that that just like, it tried to have the the humor that you're talking about. Jake Jackson. Reason That's

T.C.:

the actor's name.

Jim:

That's the actor's name. Yeah. Well and and and he was he was he did a good job for for his part, but there's there's a bunch of gags that I think don't land Mhmm. In that movie. Like like like, they they put them there and it just doesn't work.

T.C.:

Yeah.

Jim:

And then I don't know. I I hate I hate being a person who's like, I know this actor in this role and I can't ever see him another way.

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Tom Cruise played a selfish jerk in the movie.

T.C.:

And he's just

Jim:

And I just have a really hard time buying him as as this selfish jerk.

T.C.:

I think there's there's the key is casting right, but also, like, that humor needs to be handled by the right person. I and, like, just quippy for the sake of quippy. Like, Max Landis is not allowed to write any of these movies. Okay? Because he's not funny, and he thinks he is.

T.C.:

And like, he tries to be quippy, and it doesn't work. And I don't wanna see Jesse Eisenberg near any of these films. And I've just, know, publicly mocked two very successful Hollywood people that are will be more successful than I'll ever be. And I've tangent it away from from the point here. I think this there there could be a fun universe to to be

Jim:

had here. Welcome. Welcome to the podcast, Burning Bridges. Yeah. There's having

T.C.:

some fun with this, lampshading a lot of things, paying tribute to what came before in terms of the history of these characters. I think there's an opportunity to ride the line. I don't wanna see what's like Suicide Squad did. Like, we're dark and edgy and we're all funny and quick. Like, no.

T.C.:

Like, that's it was the wrong David Ayer is not a comedic director. Like, why was he the one involved with this? And, like, I think casting the right people isn't as important as getting the right creative, like, script and direct around these. Sure. So having an having us studio, thank you for to oversee this in a Kevin Feige capacity to make sure that there is a consistency in these films while still giving us something different every time.

T.C.:

Sure. That's the key to the success of these. The the DC Cinematic Universe is just the same muddy, desaturated, gritty, blah for five, six movies straight. Why did Wonder Woman succeed? You had the right director Mhmm.

T.C.:

And you did not follow the SnyderVerse

Jim:

completely. Yeah. Because they they made a not not a show bible, but they they essentially made their their

T.C.:

Franchise bible.

Jim:

A franchise bible. Mhmm. And they said stick to this, and that's that's why it's not working for DC in in in my opinion. Right?

T.C.:

I agree.

Jim:

Yeah. There are people out there who think it's great, and they want more of it. And that's

T.C.:

They're they're it's fine. They can think that. That's that's their opinion. That's just an opinion, man.

Jim:

But but I I think prevailing prevailing thought is that it is not matching their expectations. No. And and I think I think you're absolutely right and as to why they're not and and why Wonder Woman worked because it didn't stick with that that franchise bible. Mhmm. And looking at the movies they're moving into, I think they are they're they're realizing that.

Jim:

So I think Aquaman it looks very colorful. And what's what's really weird is is normally they should be like, oh, that looks that looks weird. That's what's what I'm I I kinda wanna see it for those big battle scenes. Like, I wanna see a giant squid fight a bunch of crazy Atlanteans.

T.C.:

Or at this point of airing, you saw all this stuff.

Jim:

Yeah. That that's true. Oh, that that that's very true. I I need to stop

T.C.:

Let's do warp again.

Jim:

That's fine. And and, like, the the trailer for Shazam

T.C.:

Mhmm.

Jim:

Also looks very different.

T.C.:

F from

Jim:

the current.

T.C.:

Colorful. Fine. Get away from that. And and so with with So I think

Jim:

act oh oh, talking talking about that. So, basically, I think we're done pitching to the studio of the dark universe at this point. We're just kind of talking about

T.C.:

We're just riffing here. So, I mean, we can wrap up if you wanna continue.

Jim:

Oh, no. I'll I'll I'll talk all day. This will be the longest podcast ever.

T.C.:

Well, before you continue Yeah. Will this be on point to the dark universe, or you just want a tangent Not anything. I'm just tangent. Okay. We'll talk off mic here.

T.C.:

Let's wrap this up. I think I think we've come up with what would be far better than what they had planned. I mean, they canceled what they had planned. So the studio demanded a dark universe. I would watch this.

T.C.:

Think beyond the fact that we just conceptualize it and clearly we would love to make this, I I just wanna see this. I think that there's you know, though we disagreed here and there on what they can do, I think overall, we agree they should be having some fun. There should be the monster is the most important thing here. The the overall tone of the this franchise needs to be consistent while still creating a variety in these movies. So I think that with all we've discussed here, we've come up with a better movie than what we have gotten and what we would have gotten.

T.C.:

So I'm interested to hear what the listeners have to say. Yes. Whether they agree, whether they think Monster Squad's the way to go here. I know some of you agree with me. Come on.

T.C.:

Let me know. So comment below, tweet at us. Let's do some social stuff right here. Okay. Like I said, so you can like and subscribe wherever you are listening to this.

T.C.:

A huge shout out to Six Media for giving us this platform, and go ahead and check out seriously, go check out everything Six Five Media has been creating. You heard one of their commercial spots in the the the beginning of this episode as well. Jim, where can people find you? Are you on Twitter yet? Are you on the Insta?

Jim:

I am on Twitter, but I've forgotten my handle, so that's not useful.

T.C.:

You need

Jim:

to figure

T.C.:

that out.

Jim:

I am not on Insta. So, you know, I'm I'm real easy to get ahold of.

T.C.:

Well, at the very comment if you want to talk specifically to Jim.

Jim:

Can That's the best way to

T.C.:

take him right here for now. And so we we hook you up with a proper social media handle here. So, you can find me at t c's big head on Twitter and Instagram. And that is it for this episode. The studio demanded a dark universe, and we gave it to him, Jim.

T.C.:

Right? Whoo. Whoo. Should we do a high five?

Jim:

Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. That was that's we we'll work on that. Alright.

T.C.:

So that's all for this episode. We'll be back again next time with another challenge to improve upon the world of cinema. I'm TC. I'm Jim. And, that's the end.