Hello, and welcome to the Studio Demands It. This is an exercise in creative thinking where we will challenge ourselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. I am your host, TC DeWitt, and joining me as always is my cohost, Jim Bartholomew Berzelik. Hello, Jim. How are you?
Jim:Good. How are you?
T.C.:Is that your middle name? It is now. It is now. I'll just change it every episode.
Jim:Yeah. Sounds good.
T.C.:Here we are. The first episode. Yep. Episode zero likely. Yep.
T.C.:This may see the light of day. Who knows? And since this is the first episode, it's probably a a good enough place in any to explain what the hell we're
Jim:doing here. I I would I would think so. Yes.
T.C.:I would I would assume we could explain it. I mean, I kinda gave my little
Jim:Yeah. Pretty intro. It's pretty it's pretty much sums it up. Okay. And how are you gonna resummit
T.C.:up? Resummit it. Well, I so you and I like to talk about movies.
Jim:We do.
T.C.:Yeah. In fact, my previous and current podcast, The Rewatchman, was created and and just we did it because Ben and I would just talk about movies all the time for hours on end, and we're like, you know what? Just put microphone between us.
Jim:Yeah. That's that's that's pretty much what happened. It's it's mostly
T.C.:for us. Yeah. But we we talk about movies all the time. And in particular, something I love doing with you is complain about movies. And, and the and the choices that were made in certain properties and blockbusters, like, well, we I mean Yeah.
T.C.:We'll talk about horror movies.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Yeah. We'll conceptualize films, but it's, in particular, like, the IPs Oh, yeah. That were like,
Jim:woah. Why? Why did you make that decision? Was that
T.C.:a choice? Who demanded that? Some producer at a level was like, you know what'd be cool? What? Giant spider.
T.C.:It was yeah. Giant spider. It's exactly that. It's exactly that. And it was and this this is a subject matter we may return maybe down the road.
T.C.:Yeah. But it started with Star Trek Into Darkness.
Jim:It did.
T.C.:We we were watching Star Trek Into Darkness, which I do not like. I've I've softened down it over time.
Jim:Sure. It's it's it's a it's a movie that sure is there. It's, it's action packed. It's no it's no original wrath of con thematically.
T.C.:But it sure wishes it was.
Jim:It really does.
T.C.:And you posited the question to me. You're like, alright. Well, what would you do? The studio says you have to do wrath of con. How do you do it?
Jim:In in in new Star Trek.
T.C.:And with with, yeah, the 2,009 existing JJ Abrams soft reboot. And what proceeded was we talked the entire runtime Yep. Of Star Trek into darkness conceptualizing a new movie. Yeah. That would have been so
Jim:much better. It have been so I wanted to watch that movie. I wanted to see that movie.
T.C.:Yeah. So that that led to this this creation of this concept that is now this podcast Mhmm. Where we're gonna do that.
Jim:We're gonna record it for posterity so at the very least, we can listen back and Yeah. And and say how smart we are.
T.C.:And and at the most, there's two scenarios. One, people will hear this and go, yeah. I like those guys' ideas, which will coincide nicely to my video series on YouTube, steal this idea. Oh. Self plug there.
Jim:Oh, I I like that.
T.C.:Yeah. The the alternative is that there will be time travelers and dimension hoppers who steal our ideas and make them in a universe we'll never get to see. Yeah. That That's yeah.
Jim:It's a sad it's that's that's a sad option Yeah. Because I want to see them. So let just But, and let's not dwell on sad other realities and get better movies than us.
T.C.:I'm just gonna pick this is something we could talk from time to time. It is we will get to the topic of the episode.
Jim:Quantum physics. You wanna you wanna just
T.C.:No. Change it into quantum physics? Pitch a movie to you. Oh, okay. Because it would be there I okay.
T.C.:So Ready Player One came out. Yeah. We're not doing an episode on Ready Player One,
Jim:but we Good. I haven't seen
T.C.:it yet. Okay. But you've have you read the book? You're aware of it? Okay.
T.C.:I'm I'm aware of it.
Jim:It's just That's my knowledge.
T.C.:The pop culture cow. It's just milk milk milk. Mhmm. Like, reference. Reference.
T.C.:Get it. Reference. Get it. Get it. Yeah.
T.C.:Alright. Please
Jim:tell me every reference is is somehow said in bold type with the character turning toward the the camera. It's going this
T.C.:Got Yeah. I got it. Got it. It's it's fine. It's cool book.
T.C.:It's it's an okay movie. Spielberg phoned in. That's not the point, but I'm gonna pitch with you. Could you conceptualize a film where a a struggling filmmaker steals movie ideas from alternate dimensions? Yes.
T.C.:So the first
Jim:Yes. Instantly. Yes. I can.
T.C.:So this is how it start. It would start out first, like, finding the sliders like ability to travel into the alternate dimension and be like, holy cow. I and this would be such an indie idea because with that ability, you could change the world. You could affect the sociopolitical politics of the world over it. No.
T.C.:He's like, you know what I can do now that I can do this? I can see Indiana Jones starring Tom Selleck. I can go see that movie. And so they go see they go see movies that were, like, the what if Stallone had been the Terminator, or what if OJ Simpson had been the Terminator? Like, those movies.
T.C.:Yeah. And then then advancing that idea to, I could just
Jim:Redo that movie as as that.
T.C.:In my dimension. Yeah. And so I guess in a sense that's not that's tangentially connected to what this this podcast is. Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Alternate dimension movie ideas. Yeah. And under the stipulation of the like, a studio saying, no. It's you have to do Rafficon.
Jim:The thing is, I'm and now I'm trying to imagine the conceit of that movie or TV show or just the story. Yeah. Right? Like, last action hero had the golden ticket that took him into the movie, and that was really cool. Yeah.
Jim:But I'm imagining something like that, like, this guy goes to a movie, he's all alone in the theater, and and that's, like, for whatever reason, that's what transported him
T.C.:And Sherlock Holmes juniors into the screen. Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. It
T.C.:would be as I would do it at a level of, like, safety not guaranteed or at
Jim:For sure.
T.C.:Like, something indie, like, really indie. Yeah. But the only way you could do that is with hundreds of million dollars to get those IPs. Yeah. Right?
T.C.:Because I
Jim:Well, I think okay. Talking about us making that and not just conceptualizing this this kid playing around with with all the IPs, And I think it'd be a lot of fun would be doing not satires, but not not full lampoons, but like
T.C.:Homage.
Jim:Yeah. That kind of thing. Right? Like Like
T.C.:like like Conman is not really about Firefly, but it's pretty much about Firefly.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. So like so like if you were to see the predator or or predator, would any any of the predator movies, the the IP of predator Mhmm.
Jim:In the movie he's he would see would be like the hunter. The alien has come from space and right? So you you get to do you get to do your kind of quote unquote remake while also homaging to the actual thing and
T.C.:Would that be
Jim:as fulfilling
T.C.:would that be as fulfilling, though, to see, you know, John Clyde Vandem playing the bug alien predator?
Jim:I think The hunter. A little a little bit. You know,
T.C.:the hunter? Not a good title.
Jim:No. Not at all. Not at all.
T.C.:Would it be as good would it would it be as cool seeing the homage ref? Because then you're asking the audience to go, oh, I know what that is, as opposed to just straight up saying, no. This is Tom Selk as Indiana Jones. Right? Like, it's because that was the problem with Ready Player One.
T.C.:It turned into this whole get it. Get it. Get it. And and that's oftentimes a problem with a lot of movies like
Jim:that. I I guess that that's if if what I know about Ready Player One is true because they actually got access to so many IPs Mhmm. I think that's actually why they leaned on that to say, look at the thing we got. Whereas with this, it'd be a matter of making something that is close enough to identify. Mhmm.
Jim:And the word I can't think of the word. Because there's a lot lawnmowers. Yeah. Lawnmowers. Something that that's close enough to identify because then you also need to film it in a way that captures the spirit of it and and captures everything to make people identify it as such.
Jim:Okay. But then at the same time, a poignant not poignantly, but but pointedly. That's the word. Pointedly show your changes. Does that make sense?
T.C.:Yeah. I think this this would be a a movie to really you really have to chart this one out to figure out what's the actual mark of the movie versus how many references you put into it. But he this look at us talking movies. This what the whole this is what this whole show is gonna be. It is.
T.C.:Yeah. It is. I'm so excited because my voice is getting higher.
Jim:It is. That that's what happens. Yeah. I'm so excited. Oh, TC's never been more excited.
T.C.:So we we do talk movies all the time, and we do complain about the choices made by certain blockbusters. And, of course, like the good nerds that we are, we just assume we could do better. We can. Even with the demands and restrictions that are clearly that clearly had to be put on this film by some producer. Giant Spider.
T.C.:Giant Spider. Name of Giant Spider. Jimmy Olsen's gay. We're gonna just keep referencing Kevin Smith's Superman. That's that's it.
Jim:Yeah. That sounds good.
T.C.:So, but why you know, who the hell are we? Well, I'm a writer. You're a writer. Yep. You've directed.
Jim:Filmmakers. Yeah.
T.C.:We are we are filmmakers, and, we've act we've both acted. We've produced. We've been involved in filmmaking and storytelling in general. That's what our degrees are in. Yep.
T.C.:So I'm not saying we know what we're talking about, but we're not we don't not know what we're talking about. Yeah. And we just love movies.
Jim:I I really do.
T.C.:Okay. So
Jim:I would marry them if I could.
T.C.:So where to begin? We have I have a ridiculous pile of we were we're gonna draw randomly. That's another another channel of this movie is we're not coming in prepared for anything. We are drawing from a hat, essentially. Yep.
T.C.:A virtual hat to decide what we're gonna discuss.
Jim:This whole thing is gonna be improv.
T.C.:And, ideally, as we do this, you know, we would love for our listeners to contribute. So if you're listening to this and you have opinions about what we're saying
Jim:Yeah. Like, if if if you get the gist of it and and and you have what you think would be a fun idea Mhmm. Let us know.
T.C.:Yeah. Well, and if we pitch an idea you think is any good, then you have the means to let us make it. Make it so. So with that said, we are going to randomly select one. Right?
T.C.:Yeah. And and today alright.
Jim:I'm just gonna gonna Yeah. Mix it up there.
T.C.:This makes good audio.
Jim:It really does.
T.C.:Especially because I'm not I'm literally just waving my hand in the air. Alright. So the because this is episode zero, because I wanna softball this Sure. Because we've already kind of broached the subject on this, the studio and because this is a property that we are going to get next year.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:The studio is demanding another Die Hard.
Jim:Oh, no. Okay. The studio
T.C.:is demanding another DieHard, Jim.
Jim:Yep. Yes. It is.
T.C.:And it is now our responsibility to give the studio what they want. Okay?
Jim:Great.
T.C.:Yeah. Now now And that's gonna be DieHard six. Right? It'll be DieHard six. Now are you aware that there's one coming out?
Jim:I was not aware there's one coming out.
T.C.:There is one coming out. As as it is understood right now, there's not too much known about it. But the as as of recording, what we do know is that Die Hard six is going to take place in the past of John McClain's clear John McClain's career. Say that five times. Before the the Nakatomi Building.
T.C.:Okay. Okay. And after current. So you're gonna get bored. Just phoning it in.
T.C.:Clearly doesn't give a damn Bruce Willis playing old grizzled John McClain. Yep. Right? Phoning it in. That guy does not care anymore.
T.C.:It's so depressing. And a young John McClain, I'll just assume is playing by played by Joseph Gordon Levitt.
Jim:Yes. That's that's that is the assumption.
T.C.:And and some case that he had in his young career is now affecting him in his in his retirement career, and it's the it'll be the godfather two of diehard movies. The diefather. Godhard. What do you hardfather. No.
T.C.:Let's not call it hardfather. Okay. So as I understand, that is what they're gonna do.
Jim:Okay. Now
T.C.:I don't think that's a good idea. I don't want that. No. I and it's particularly because I don't think Bruce Willis cares anymore. So my question to you is Sure.
T.C.:Is the studio demanding that Bruce Willis be in this movie? Do you think they are? Like, you can't have a Die Hard without Bruce Willis.
Jim:I think so. Okay. Because, right, because the the notion of that, the reason you don't just reboot it entirely
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Is because you're you're banking on audiences wanting to see the face they know as John McClane.
T.C.:Right. You can't it's yeah, he's he's so definitively John McClane despite the fact that Die Hard five is one of the most offensive movies. Not like it's not offensive in, like you know what I mean? It's as a moviegoer sitting there and witnessing that film, I was offended that it existed. Like, who who decided this?
T.C.:Who said Jai Courtney's a thing? Who paid Bruce Willis to come in here? Who wrote this garbage? I was so mad at
Jim:that movie. I hate that movie. Oh, Jim. I'm so mad.
T.C.:Okay. Sorry. I have I have ranted on this in a previous podcast with Jeff Bell over at Ghost Head. If you wanna hear me go to town, I'm Die five. But the studio is asking for a Die Hard six.
T.C.:Okay. Okay. So Bruce Willis
Jim:is gonna have to be in it. Six.
T.C.:I don't think they're asking for a young and old Bruce Willis. They're just saying, Willis is gonna be in Die Hard six. Let's just start there. What do you do? Where do you go with this?
Jim:Alright. So this this might not be conducive to thing, but I I have to admit and then ask for a very quick summation
T.C.:Don't do this today.
Jim:Hard five. No. I know it takes place in in foreign country land. Yeah. Yevikia, mother Russia.
Jim:It is Russia. Okay. Yeah. And I know it involves his son. Like, his son is like a
T.C.:CIA guy. John Jack McClain Junior.
Jim:John Jack McClain Junior.
T.C.:Yep. Yep.
Jim:Is he's a CIA guy now? Is that what it is?
T.C.:Alright. So you goddamn it.
Jim:I just just to do a real quick solo. And then Jack Courtney
T.C.:Jack Courtney plays Jack. Jack is he he's CIA, but he's undercover sort of department style or, like, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Okay. And he has to break this war criminal out of his trial and is now a criminal himself. And John gets, is gonna go to Russia to get his son and bring him home.
T.C.:Sure. Because he's he's he's gone too far. He needs to be brought home. So John shows up.
Jim:Don't have questions, but I'm not gonna ask them.
T.C.:Finds Jack. They get caught up in this whole, who's the bad guy? Overseat, gotta we gotta protect this guy, this war criminal from the bad guys. Oh, lo and behold, he's actually the bad guy. Oh, lo and behold, we actually are stealing gold from Chernobyl.
T.C.:And
Jim:So it still does have the the the earmarks of a Die Hard movie.
T.C.:Yes. And and, honestly, they there could have been a good movie here, but it is so, so poorly done. Like, John McClain is the ugliest American he could possibly be. He still he I gotta get my son. Grabs a guy, yanks him out his car, punches him in the face.
T.C.:The guy's yelling and says, speak English. And he gets in the car. He drives the guy's big old truck over vehicles, crushing them to catch his son. Sure.
Jim:Clearly, you are a big fan of this movie.
T.C.:Oh, I love
Jim:So okay. So it it hits it hits the die hard. I just I that's what I need to know. I need to know that that that the the franchise, not watermarks, just just just key keystones Mhmm. Are maintained.
T.C.:Right there,
Jim:but no one It's it's it's it's the bad guys, their plot is is somewhat political, but then it turns out that's just a cover for some sort of robbery Mhmm. Albeit on a grand scale. Yeah. The bad guys are definitively foreign dudes that they gotta mess with. Mhmm.
Jim:They say yippee ki yay at some point in there. There are, McClain and or, I guess, his son at this point creatively kill bad guys because the materials available to them are, not underwhelming. That's not the word. They they are they are under equipped to deal with the situation because they're thrust into a scenario.
T.C.:Yeah. So the yes. You're right. The remarks are they're all there. It's just executed.
Jim:And it's in Russia. Right? So it's it's a it's police academy in Russia, Die Hard. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Jim:Cool. So how do we one up from from that? That's
T.C.:Well, can I pitch what I would do? Yes.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:So if I've I've thought of this previously. This is ever since I saw Die Hard five and was like, yeah. This is this is what I do. You've seen Die Hard four.
Jim:Yes.
T.C.:You actually admitted before you like Die Hard four. Okay. No kidding. It. I didn't hate it.
T.C.:Okay. I like it. I like Die Hard. Okay. I think it's fun.
T.C.:It's a fun action movie. Does it is it really a good Die Hard movie? No. Because John McClain was better as the every man, not the invisible invincible Mhmm. Juggernaut they turned him into.
T.C.:But Lucy McClain is introduced in Die Hard four. Mhmm. And she's a tenacious young lady. Right? Yep.
T.C.:My pitch for Die Hard sequel would be follow her. Okay. Stick her in a scenario. She she's working in her office building, and the and and some sort of takeover of the building happens. We're recreating Die Hard one Yeah.
T.C.:Where she's the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time. Right?
Jim:K.
T.C.:And John is the Al character. He sees on the news that his daughter's building has been taken over. Sure. He goes down there, and now he's the man on the street talking to her, talking her through the adventure.
Jim:Okay. Yeah. That that was even better where I was initially I was thinking he would play, like, a hostage character who, like, at every turn, he's he's the one who who smarmily says, that's my girl kinda thing. And and, like, the terrorists are getting getting upset. Like, oh, what's wrong
T.C.:with you?
Jim:Yeah. Put him in
T.C.:the position.
Jim:Yeah. But, in the Al position is is even better.
T.C.:I'd put Justin Long in the Howley position because then you get Justin Long being
Jim:There you go.
T.C.:Yeah. He's great. Like, he's got a good sense of humor. He's he's a established character. Stick him as the the damsel in the movie.
T.C.:Okay. Yeah. I like that. And and so okay. A building, maybe that's too derivative.
T.C.:Okay? Then I would go and this would be virgin into some poignancy, maybe a school campus, like a like some sort of, university. Now this is delving into, like, active shooters and real campuses today, so it might be insensitive to turn it into this hero story.
Jim:I actually I like sort of the the coming back around to the beginning. I like the idea of a bit of a big
T.C.:Put it
Jim:in big tower.
T.C.:Okay. And and we're not talking a skyscraper rack, like an impossible sci fi tower. No. Stick it in.
Jim:Just just write an office an office tower.
T.C.:Because this allows you to really lampshade some stuff, to have Lucy say something like I think it's the second movie John says, how can the look. I'm in another air duct. How does the same shit happen to the same guy two times in a row? Right? Yeah.
T.C.:Lucy could have something in that capacity in her dialogue of, like, this how is this family so cursed that I'm in an air duct in an elevator shaft in a building Yeah. Taken out. Right? I I would this meet the studio demands? We got Bruce Willis in it.
Jim:As of as of the demands that was, like, that were in was initially put out, John Mac John McClain Mhmm. Must have Bruce Willis' face.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Yes. This meets the demands. I think having him as the the assist on the street Mhmm. You can cut to him enough that that he is an active, effective participant Mhmm. Which doesn't just sideline the character.
Jim:Right? Because you you you're gonna be able to get him doing all of his classic stuff of, like, smart ass remarks to the the other cops when they show up. Yeah. The FBI when they show up, all that kind of stuff. You're gonna have that that sort of fun back and forth.
Jim:So I think I think that's that's a a great place to put John. And then we get to see someone new in the role, but they're still a McLean. Right? So so you can't complain that it's just a it's a Joe whoever. It's no.
Jim:It's it's still it's kept in the family as gross as that kind of is. It's still it keeps it in tradition. Right? Tradition.
T.C.:It's Lucy. Lucy is a far more compelling character from Die Hard four than Jack was, which you didn't see Die Hard five, but Jack it's Jack Courtney. I mean, what more do I need to say in terms of a vapid void of care lack of charisma? Thanks for listening, Jai. Good good.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Win it over win it over listeners.
T.C.:Okay. So now the studio might not demand this because this it might be something to the effect of, no. This is gonna be Bruce Willis' movie, and it I think it can be. I think we've we we have
Jim:We made a great movie. Now we gotta remake it a different way.
T.C.:Right. This kinda has the the cliches of what Hollywood's been doing anyway, reboot a series, sorta, ignore sequels that don't matter.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Right? You put a female lead in a traditionally male in a, like, reboot, like, much like the much maligned Star Wars reboots or Yeah. Soft reboots have been by sticking Rey in such a powerful position
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:As a central character. I think I think this would be something that could make money. I think that you could make it a lower budget movie because the stakes are lower. It doesn't need to be stopped the nukes from going off or even, Die Hard four of, the wiping out the financial Yeah. The all the electricity.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is cool, but a pulling back allows for more character work, which is what the first Die Hard was so good for.
T.C.:Yeah. But does does do the studios care?
Jim:Well, right. That's almost the the crux of of of what we're talking about. What I what I know of the studios, they're gonna want they want the thing that's gonna give them the biggest return.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:I think doing a Nakatomi two is a is kind of a great idea. Yeah. I would I would love to see that it it kind of right. To me, it's a it's a returning to your roots kind legacy. Die hard.
Jim:Yeah. That's that's awesome. Yeah. But the the right. The whole notion of if there's a bomb, it has to be deactivated with one second left.
Jim:Anything else just you you lose out on tension. Right? Like like, I don't know. I I don't have them at hand, but I'm pretty sure, like like, marketing studies have been done that the stakes must be high. It it can't ever be, you know, for the the neighborhood or or or even countryside.
Jim:It has to like, the stakes need to be the world is in danger.
T.C.:Well, it needs to escalate from the one before it. Yeah. Like, there's And and have shown that that you can't deescalate the stakes, which I I disagree with because I
Jim:think Me too.
T.C.:I think certain franchises have proved that. You look at the I think Marvel's good for that where you can go from something like Infinity War and then follow it up with Ant Man and the Wasp, which is much smaller stakes.
Jim:Well, no. One one could argue that that you're that that's looking at, for example, Marvel as one continuing storyline and that they are deescalating from there. But I think there, it's they're escalating from Avengers. They they haven't come down from Avengers. Mhmm.
Jim:Ant Man has escalated from the first one to the second one.
T.C.:Okay. I see what saying.
Jim:So in regards to that. I'm wrong. I hate to argue with you.
T.C.:No. That's what I'm for, Jim.
Jim:Crazy curious to see where they're gonna go after after Thanos.
T.C.:Oh, right. Like, how
Jim:Like, how because well, actually, we've discussed that before too. That's probably in the in the pot for what we're gonna
T.C.:what's gonna be do for
Jim:a So I probably shouldn't say much more about that. But we've had ideas.
T.C.:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jim:But I think so, actually, let's let's speak to to that point. How do you deescalate? And that's kind of what we're we're it seems we're saying you need to do a diehard or what we would want to do. And I think the way to do that is to not just reset the stakes of of of what's what's at stake. The right?
Jim:You can't just take John McClain who has fought off countries worth of bad guys.
T.C.:Yeah. International terrorists.
Jim:And then say, and now it's another six dudes in an up office building. Right. So the way you do that is is what you suggested. Make it another character somewhat related to the first one so it's not just no one out of out of nowhere. Mhmm.
Jim:And have that first character be there as as the sage. Right? Having having them
T.C.:The mentor. Yeah. He's he's seen he's Al. He's seen him through. He's the the ear the shoulder for her to lean on and the the voice on the other side of the microphone.
Jim:And you you get a whole new a whole new re upping. You you you basically get a whole new franchise
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:That's built on on the old one
T.C.:On Lucy.
Jim:To to rebuild.
T.C.:And it's and it's deescalated where you don't have to get like, okay. Well, we gotta go to space in this one because we've we've we've escalated to that point.
Jim:I frankly, that's what Star Wars has done. Right? That's Rey wasn't Rey didn't start at the power level of Luke Skywalker as a Jedi master. She started all over as a kid living in a desert.
T.C.:Yeah. Just just brought it back to to the beginning. Mhmm.
Jim:But still referencing and bringing back those characters, having them be characters that show up again. Mhmm. So Star Wars did it.
T.C.:That that's our Listen listen, studio. Listen, studio. Star Wars did this. We're gonna get away with it. Right?
Jim:That's always a good way to put it.
T.C.:Right? Trust us. Star Wars. I I I like this idea. Obviously, I'm the one who pitched that.
Jim:I like
T.C.:this idea, but it's it it's a much more interesting film. It it lends itself to I feel a scenario like this lends itself to wanting to see it again as opposed to just dumb explosive just set piece after set piece.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Having the relationship between, John and Lucy. Right?
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Having having the similarities to the first one, but finding new ways to approach it, which actually we could let's let's talk about that next. I'm I'm interested in that because it brings it back to more of a character piece that that first one was. That first one is a great fun action movie, but it has some depth to these characters. Like, they aren't just action hero. Even the even the bad guys are Yeah.
T.C.:Memorable in their own way.
Jim:Oh,
T.C.:yeah. And Definitely. And and that can't even be said about the rest of the diehards. I think yeah. Maybe DieHard two.
T.C.:I could I can think of what three of the bad guys look like. In DieHard three, I can think of the blonde lady that, Simon is, you know, hooked up with.
Jim:Oh, I forgot about her. I I remember Jeremy Irons. Right?
T.C.:And then and then four, there's Maggie Q and And Timothy O'Brien. And then there's the geeky
Jim:And and guy. So one of the reasons four sort of won me over from just disliking it entirely was, was when they finally revealed that, oh, it's it's another robbery on the grandest of scales. America. But, yeah, Timothy Olofant won won me over in that role.
T.C.:He's so good. The way he crunches his jaw when he talks. Everything he talks, he throws his teeth.
Jim:He's so pissed. He is.
T.C.:Bullock. What's his character from justify? I never watched it.
Jim:It's Ray Raylan? Rayland?
T.C.:Rayland. Ray
Jim:was that his name? Let's let's just dwell on this for a while.
T.C.:Ray Ray Rayland. There's no way to find out.
Jim:No way to find out.
T.C.:None. I don't have any. There's no means. There needs to be some sort of, like, you know, like, a wave.
Jim:Some sort of a a digital interface where we could look up information. Just oodles and oodles
T.C.:of information.
Jim:Like a Could we call it Oodle? That's cool. Yeah. That's actually a really good name for it.
T.C.:Cool. Alright.
Jim:Like yeah. Okay. Alright. This is what I wanna
T.C.:do here. I wanna take a quick break. We're gonna come back. I have I wanna throw some more studio demands
Jim:in Okay.
T.C.:And and see where we go from there.
Jim:Sounds good.
T.C.:It's cool. So here's a here's a quick little ad.
Jim:Alright. Go. Hi there. I'm David.
T.C.:And I'm Kate. And we're the
Jim:hosts of another Zelda podcast.
Commercial:There are so many good podcasts out there, and some of them in particular concern the Legend of Zelda.
Jim:That's right, Kate. And we are another one of them. We that is actually the name of our show, another Zelda podcast.
Commercial:And in our show in particular, we talk about some of our favorite dungeons, characters, boss battles. We have top 10 lists.
Jim:Yeah. We do deep dives on game design and production aspects of the different Zelda games.
Commercial:And we talk about our own experiences. We do some review episodes, talk about our challenges, our struggles, and our victories.
Jim:That's right. You know, really just almost anything that has to do with Zelda, we like to talk about it. A new episode comes out every other Friday, and you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, and YouTube.
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Jim:That's right. Alright. We will see you there.
T.C.:Okay. Bye.
Jim:Yeah. Like, the more I think about like, I I should probably probably be recording well.
T.C.:We are recording right now.
Jim:Oh, that's perfect. That's perfect then. No. Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I really I really like that idea.
Jim:Right? Because you get to you get to, like, reset but still have all the one like, the thing that made John McClain so wonderful is that he he knew the basics. Right? He was a trained cop and all that, but but really it's it's that he's plucky Yes. And he's tenacious.
T.C.:Oh, here's this.
Jim:Right? Like, that's that's sort of the point. And then by you you can't you can't have his son, be the new one because you you you ruined him because he's trained.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Right? He's a he is a professional. This is what he does. He's just gonna, James Bond or triple x his way his way through these these terrorist robbers.
T.C.:Right. Could you imagine a scenario where Lucy went into the police academy and and decided, no. I'm not gonna follow my father's footsteps. So she has a or just self defense, like, something that makes her just a little capable. Because John's not incapable.
T.C.:He is a police officer with training in that first one. He's just not a super soldier. Yeah. Giving Lucy some sort of background. It could just be the the fact that, hey.
T.C.:You know, it's a good thing I made you take all those self defense classes. Am I right?
Jim:God. When you say it like that, it sounds terrible, but that's that's was the angle I actually kind of preferred Yeah. Was that her training more comes from the the family she has. Like, John has literally gone through this four times now.
T.C.:It. Yes.
Jim:Only four. No. Four. Only four. Gracing five.
T.C.:I demand it. Okay. So she has just that.
Jim:I I think it it sort of it raises the stakes a bit if she has to kinda learn learn on on the fly. Mhmm.
T.C.:Right? And
Jim:she Like, you could have you could have a whole scene where she manages to get her hands on May this might be too much, but I'll I'll say it anyway. Yeah. Where she gets her hands on a gun and her her dad, John, has to explain how to use it over the phone. That's that's too much, actually, even as I say that out loud. Mhmm.
Jim:Right? McClain's daughter is gonna know how to use a gun.
T.C.:Use a gun. Yeah.
Jim:But but, like, like, a scene like something like that where he has to walk her through a thing she might not necessarily
T.C.:Right.
Jim:Know how to do.
T.C.:Yeah. Setting c four.
Jim:There you go.
T.C.:Something like that. Like, alright. What you can do is you can take the explosive clean, you're gonna put in the thing, just mash it all in, it's like Play Doh. Is this thing gonna go off my hands? No, it's not gonna go off your hands, you're just gonna throw it down the elevator shaft, trust me, it'll work.
T.C.:I do a terrible Bruce Willis, I'm sorry.
Jim:Yeah, no, it's just fine.
T.C.:It's come to the coast, have a few lefts. No, I'm not gonna try.
Jim:I did try, I'm not gonna try again.
T.C.:Jeff, where are you? Okay. So here here's the question though. Because the studio likes the studio approves. The studio thinks this is a good way to go.
T.C.:The fear here now is some of the backlash that occurs in similar soft reboots like this. One of the biggest complaints of Force Awakens is just the same thing all over again, and we are clearly in that area. So what can we do Mhmm. To satisfy any fears or, you know, to relieve any fears that
Jim:That is it's not just the same thing?
T.C.:Yeah. I I have a suggestion, but let's see if anything pops your mind just me throwing it at you right now. And you're thinking as I talk
Jim:you. Something to make because right now, I'm liking the idea of kind of revisiting all of all of the same things through the lens of a new character. How does I I don't know if it needs to go all the way down to how does Lucy deal with running through broken glass.
T.C.:Right. Right.
Jim:But, I I I kinda like the idea of similar beats. Mhmm.
T.C.:I I agree. I think that's a safe way to go. And I think the audiences have audiences have proved they're willing to accept that when you look at something. I sorry to keep going back to Star Wars, but they're the best example of this, of rebooting something. Or we'll look at the 02/2009 Star Trek.
T.C.:Right? Sure. Playing on very standard similar beats to other things and and being okay with it. Yeah. I think that there's there's a respectful way to do this, and there's a lazy stupid way to do this.
T.C.:Sure. Think Diodes five is a great example of a lazy stupid way of doing callbacks. Yeah. Don't kill the guy by, like, literally recreating the shot of Hans Gruber falling. Like
Jim:They did that.
T.C.:Literally recreate it. Except he doesn't fall to the ground. He falls into a helicopter blade. It's Oh, like in,
Jim:Last Boy Scout. Shit. Oh, gosh. Another Bruce Willis movie.
T.C.:Damn you, Bruce Willis. You know what is happening? This one, you should fly.
Jim:Hey. When I saw that when I was, like, 14, that was amazing.
T.C.:Alright. So here's a suggestion suggestion I wanna throw you since we're in the writer's room here. The assumption that this is a robbery the entire time. Could there be, like, John's like, I've been through this
Jim:past the
T.C.:is not a terrorist situation. This is they're not doing this for any other means. It's always a robbery. It's it's the hey. Where's it's it's just a bigger death star.
T.C.:There's always a way to blow it up. This is just a robbery. And and and John trying to tell the cops this the entire time, telling Lucy, just figure out what their their their goal is. What what are they trying to get and stop them from getting that? And then that being wrong.
Jim:Oh. Oh, and turn it on its head where the robbery is the cover Yes.
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:Make the actual political Make
T.C.:the robbery the cover for whatever the actual crime is.
Jim:That's not bad.
T.C.:Like, spend the whole movie out of just calling calling it what it is. The this is everything but saying, this is a Die Hard movie. They're robbers. Mhmm. That's what they're doing.
T.C.:And then okay. I'll even go I'll even I'll even add a little more here. Let me twist some knobs Having the cronies believing it's a robbery the whole time. And then, so similarly in die hard four, Timothy Olyphant uses all those guys to rob The United States, and then he kills them all. They they're they're all thinking they're in on the final cash in, but they're not.
T.C.:So similarly, could our big bad be, yeah, this is a robbery. We're pretending it's a terrorist thing. It's actually a robbery, but then he's been lying the whole time, and it's actually something else. Terrorist thing. And that's, like, that's that's all that's a that we're turning the tables three times, but is there a way to effectively do that to give the audience something refreshing in that final act, the final turn to be all Lucy's so that we can we can anticipate what's gonna happen through all this because we are basically recreating the first DieHard.
T.C.:We're giving the audience exactly what they're expecting. How do we come up with an ending that isn't the exact same thing to surprise the folks? That's what the studio is asking you now.
Jim:I'm willing to explore that. I don't I don't have an idea off the top of my head. And it does it does the the risk there is is one too many, twists. Right. Twist
T.C.:on twist. Is a problem in diehard six. I'm sorry, diehard five. In diehard five, there's too many twists.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Alright? Like, you don't even know who the freaking bad guy is, and it's not this one. That's this one. And then there's then they didn't even have the shot of the girl taking her shirt off that was in the trailer in the movie. There's all these twists, Jim.
T.C.:All these twists. So where where
Jim:Short answer. Yeah. That's great. I think, let's see. Let's see.
Jim:What what do I do? I think, that's where, you can incorporate more of Justin Long. Right? His character already a conspiracy theorist.
T.C.:Mhmm. A hacker. Right? I mean, he'd be he'd be amped up in a conspiracy theorist.
Jim:Was a hacker. He was a he was a conspiracy nut as well. Right?
T.C.:Yeah. He was in that. You know what the government's doing? You think they really spent that much money on a toilet seat, which I know is a quote from a different movie. But Yeah.
T.C.:That's sneakers
Jim:that I'm Yeah. That is.
T.C.:Oh. But, yeah, he already has that sort of, like, anti government attitude, and that would be enhanced from his experiences previously.
Jim:Yeah. So I I think I think that you can utilize him for that sort of that second twist.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Right. Right. Like, so the you do the sort of the standard thing with John giving advice from the outside, And then finally, Justin Long has been trying to to contact Lucy because, you know, he's he's in the Holly role, so he knows only one person can make someone that mad. They've totally
T.C.:broken up at this point, by the way. They are not That that's how
Jim:you would that's how you would
T.C.:do I mean, because John and Holly weren't together. Or or do you want the let's have
Jim:them See, I I I think it personally, I think it'd be more fun that they are together, and it's fine. And, actually, that could be even some of the banter between Lucy and John. Mhmm.
T.C.:Oh, he doesn't like he doesn't like Justin Long's character.
Jim:Okay. Yeah. I liked it. By the end of four, they they were okay with each other though. Right?
Jim:I I don't remember for sure.
T.C.:He's like, what did she say about me? He's like, pump the brakes hotshot. And then, yeah, did he ask about me? Oh, come on. Like, he's just a come on.
T.C.:Like, so, yeah, having him not like Yeah. You know, there's something better
Jim:so then Yeah. So John helps Lucy through most of it, but then we get to sort of this this this new turn, and that's where Justin Long's care Justin Long's character has to kinda almost comes in and and not takes over the John McClain role, but but, like, facilitates this the the new twist because that's actually that story is even going to go along with with his his character's not motives, but, just what that character's about. Right? John McClain's about stopping the dudes from getting the money.
T.C.:Stop the bad guys.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. And and, whereas Justin's character is gonna follow these more convoluted paths, so he's gonna he's gonna help there with that third act twist.
T.C.:Yeah. I okay. So I'm willing to go with that. I'm okay with that, but I don't wanna put him into the forefront. I think the twist the twist on him would be he's the one who figures out the real story.
T.C.:Like, he's Okay. Sure. The the movement from the second
Jim:act Right.
T.C.:Because because
Jim:he's a hostage there, and so he's getting all their their information.
T.C.:So then and and we're playing I I definitely think this movie should be played much we will have much more room for humor. Right? Sure. Like, there's plenty of room here to have the way the relationships are, the natural banter of the original John McClane, having Justin Long's character. Think his name's Matt, so I should look it up.
T.C.:Having Matt figure out the real what the hell is going on and yeah. Go ahead. What the real what the hell is going on is now you have Justin Long's Matt character trying to tell Lucy what's going on and John trying to tell her what's going on, and both of them are inundating her with, like, don't do this. No. Do this.
T.C.:No. Do this. Because then that leads
Jim:her to like that. Like, both of you.
T.C.:Shut up. Shut up. I got this. Right? Because and I and I obviously, we are two it is mad.
T.C.:Okay. Cool. It is we are two cis white male straight dudes. Like like, we obviously aren't in the in the the we shouldn't be sitting here talking about women's, empowerment or not, but we're I'm I'm an ally for that. I know you're an ally for that.
T.C.:And I think that's what this movie will offer more than anything is motorcycles driving by while we record, is especially that moment. Give the twist. We now have a third act. We don't know what to expect because it's never it's completely different, and we have the two male characters trying to tell her like it is, and she says, more or less, within the dialogue, stop. This is my movie now.
T.C.:We're not following John. We're not I'm not gonna let my boyfriend, who I have a very loving relationship with, a very fantastic relationship. No. She's just Sure. Everything's set aside and our our climax of this movie, it's the Lucy McClain show, even going so far as, after that moment of, like, shut up, losing the walkie talkie, losing the self like, doesn't even have any connection to the outside the building anymore.
T.C.:She is on her own, and she's gonna save the day. Yeah. I like that. And I think that
Jim:And I I I actually do think that's still even mirrored in the original DieHard with the the FBI trying to tell John what to do and and stuff like that. Yeah.
T.C.:So there you go. That's, I think I think man, I wanna see this movie.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. Actually, really do. Now
T.C.:okay. We're gonna bring all the way back to the movie we know we're getting. Okay. Okay. So the movie we're getting is diehard six.
T.C.:Young John McClain did something early in his career pre Nakatomi, and now it's affecting him in retirement.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And he's gotta go back to that one last case. That first case one last time. I really wanna go. Right. There a way to honor that if the studio is requesting some sort of past future scenario to absorb in this plot.
T.C.:I am not saying I do not want to see us jumping back and forth through time, but a very short prologue to set something up.
Jim:Yeah. Actually, John McClain young John McClain gets some sort of not necessarily a mob bust, but something like some some sort of, like like like I'm thinking like a foreign foreign mob bust, like they stopped some big shipment, some illegal shipment or something, and someone got killed in the in the Crossfire, something like that. This this this is going to feel a bit like DieHard three.
T.C.:Hey. Homage, baby. Yeah. That's what it's intentional. Deliberate.
T.C.:And
Jim:so at the time, right, sort of just another thing that happened on the case. So there's no reason, that John would dwell on it. There's no reason it would have ever come up in the previous five movies.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:It's not until this one where, it turns out it kinda comes back, and that's why John John is following a lead. Mhmm. That that's what takes him to the building that his daughter is at.
T.C.:Not her being endangered and him just seeing it on TV, I gotta get down there and help my daughter?
Jim:That does feel really McLeanish.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:I I
T.C.:oh. This is a Oh,
Jim:yeah. Okay. No. So so yeah. So it's it's it's a combination it's a combination.
Jim:Hey. I'll finish. What is it? So the whoever got, killed Mhmm. The criminal that got killed back then Back
T.C.:in the seventies.
Jim:Was, related to that that mob was related to, several decades later, someone who wants to get revenge, right? Something like that.
T.C.:So we are yes, you're right. I see the similarities between Hans and Simon.
Jim:Then So you can do this sort of flashback about that Mhmm. To lay that groundwork, so that later on, when it comes up, Matt is able to to find out through through his his secret working on a computer while no one's looking His
T.C.:prom pilot.
Jim:Yeah. There you go. Oh, god. He finds out that the the leader of this of this heist group oh, he's actually related to this. And that's your dad's old case.
Jim:And, oh, no. He's actually here to get his hands on you, to get his hands on your dad because it's a revenge plot kind of thing. No. No. Two two
T.C.:So Two two we're almost there. We're almost there. That's I to go through that much effort to take over a building or a or to to go after Lucy Mhmm. I think is that's too die hard
Jim:to supervillain?
T.C.:It's too supervillain. Oh, okay. This is where the this is where the struggle comes in trying to figure out something from his past that could affect his present day. Because okay. Let's actually, let's re okay.
T.C.:The villain connection is probably the simplest way to do this. Who's our villain? Do we do we go so far as to make a female villain as well? That herd has not had a female villain. They've had female side like, Maggie Q is a great sidekick villain.
T.C.:Mhmm. Henchman
Jim:henchwoman. We can. But now we My only and and like you mentioned earlier, maybe I'm not being sensitive enough to the the notion of trying new things. Mhmm. But to me, that smacks too much of we're just switching everyone.
T.C.:We're just switching everyone. Okay. Actually, this is great. We can, we can throw this to the peanut gallery real quick. Okay.
T.C.:So peanut gallery, we have to go. Candice. Candice. Candice. Do you think in a die hard six, Lucy should go up against a male or a female bad guy?
Jim:Duh. Oh, you mean
T.C.:which sex? Which sex would be
Jim:I'm saying Lucy's a
T.C.:duh. Yeah.
Commercial:Either one.
Jim:Either one. Okay. Alright. Alright. I'm trying trying too hard by switching it.
T.C.:Think Yeah. I think we stick with a guy like, make it a vill a Mhmm. A male villain. Although, to be fair, if we
Jim:wait Okay. Let let's
T.C.:let's A
Jim:male and actually twins. Actually They're twins. Die
T.C.:Hard Oh, wait. Die Hard four again to have because
Jim:they were because they were siblings. They
T.C.:were When were siblings?
Jim:Jeremy Irons and Hans Gruber.
T.C.:Oh, no. Okay. We had talked about one villain revealing that his motives are completely different.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Well, if we have twin brother and sister as our main villains, their intents could be completely different in the long run.
Jim:Oh, okay.
T.C.:Okay?
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:They are not Gruber's, for the love of god. We cannot go back to that well. Well, I don't know what you think. Like, a a pair of a pair of twin villains? I mean, a a male and a female, then we get them both?
T.C.:This this is we're in we're in some, like, muddy waters here because I don't have any concepts beyond the setup. Every all the plot points we've been discussing are we could write a whole movie on this. Yeah. But the the linchpin of this whole thing is who's the bad guy, and what are they doing, and why are they doing it? And, honestly, I don't know if making a male or female in this point of the conversation is even does it does it even matter.
T.C.:Right?
Jim:Yeah. I'm I'm not sure I'm not sure it matters, period.
T.C.:Yeah. So then the question is, what is the villain? Well, you we can go in terms of they. What does they what do they want?
Jim:What are
T.C.:what is the do you think there is something in that whole, hey. We're taking over this building because we're holding these people hostage for political reasons. No. It's actually a robbery. No.
T.C.:It's actually this. Like
Jim:Well and then then then what is the this?
T.C.:What is the yes. That's that's that's why I'm asking is what it how
Jim:satisfy it? Okay. I I get, just spitballing. The be right. Because it's gonna have to be a clandestine plan to just the masterminds that even their henchmen don't know about.
T.C.:Right.
Jim:So you pull a little bit from Diehard 4, and all of those henchmen, they're there just to die. They're disposable. But not to get rid of so that I get all the money. Mhmm. That's literally that's the that's their plot.
Jim:So they're wanting to set up a scenario where the authorities, the government, may maybe they they wanna create a situation where they go too far. They're like so it's they're they're basically, not scapegoats. There's there's they're a sacrifice.
T.C.:Yes.
Jim:They're sacrificing their henchmen for a greater purpose to say, hey. Look at how terrible your authorities are. And that's that's the motive they're going for. And if they get a little cash in the process, that's fine.
T.C.:They could be they could be fine. There it is. It's it's a robbery. Like, the assumption that's a robbery all along could be accurate except that they aren't stealing money. They're stealing information.
T.C.:If it's a and this is where kinda Matt's Matt's angle comes into because he is a you know, people need to know the truth. He I'm not saying he's in crazy ass Infowars territory because Matt's a good guy. Yeah. But he is in that whole I don't trust the government angle. Mhmm.
T.C.:If the big bad guy's motive in the end is to steal and release information, like, WikiLeaks, Snow like, to to to just reveal the truth of of, like, all these redacted documents or something. Because then Lucy could work in a government building. No. No. No.
T.C.:No.
Jim:I'd I'd it might be personal personal politics, but I I don't like, I don't like the idea of demonizing, opening information.
T.C.:Okay. Alright. I I always I I ventured down the avenue
Jim:to see
T.C.:how it
Jim:should Well, would because because there are definitely people out there who think it is about it. Like, oh, how dare you release important secrets?
T.C.:Yeah. Okay. Well, how about
Jim:No. I'm not saying that we should.
T.C.:It's Tyler Durden route. They're just erasing all the credit card.
Jim:Sure. Like All the student debt. Like a reverse robber.
T.C.:Yeah. They're they're they're stealing all the student debt. I'm trying to free you all from student debt.
Jim:No. I need this albatross around my neck.
T.C.:Here's this is the so, obviously, you
Jim:can tell by I like the idea of of the of them, not trying to like, trying to manipulate the truth Mhmm. Is is, I I an angle I I like. Like, like, they're they're trying they're trying to manipulate the narrative.
T.C.:Right.
Jim:That that that to me is more interesting than just, oh, you got some secret documents that say you're dirty. I'm gonna release them, and I'm the bad guy. You're the dirty one. Right. So so instead, I'd rather I'd like it I like the idea more that you're trying to do the right thing, and I'm gonna do this thing that then makes you look bad.
Jim:Mhmm. And that's what our character is trying to ultimately stop.
T.C.:Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. The studio is satisfied. So, actually, let's let's, go back to the whole point of this of what this series is going to be, which is, like, honoring the studio's demands.
T.C.:Let's imagine this all took place in the conversation before they may made die hard five. Alright? I die hard five, we gotta have Bruce Willis back. We gotta have his child involved in the action. We have to have it's follow the earmarks of Die Hard.
T.C.:It's a robbery. It's political, but it's not really political. It's a robbery. I paring it down, I think, is not exactly what the studio was was was looking for in terms of DieHard five.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:But I think we're giving them what they want in terms of a balls out action movie with the one f f bomb that could be PG 13 because the previous previous ones were all rated r. So the studio demanded Die Hard five, and we've come up with one way better than the one they gave us. Sure. Yeah. And then and then, you could franchise from there.
T.C.:You've said earlier, this is the beginning of of something new
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:With Lucy as our centralized character. So I think the studio would be satisfied with what we've offered here.
Jim:If I was a studio, I'd be satisfied. Let's make this. I just I wanna I wanna see this movie now.
T.C.:So what what else is there to discuss about dire? This this is what's gonna happen, Jim. Every time we do an episode Yep. We were gonna end the episode and continue to talk about the topic.
Jim:Okay. Sounds good.
T.C.:Happens every time I do one of these.
Jim:Well, right. I'm okay. Did we all did we dot all of our i's and cross all of our t's? Do we I I don't think we actually addressed all of the diehard isms. Like, the one we didn't talk about was the notion of using technology, like like, new technology.
Jim:Because one of the things that in every diehard is, oh, the bad guy is using some computers. There's computers. John doesn't get the computers. He has to just punch his way through the computers. Because because in the end, that's what's better than computers.
T.C.:Well, let's let's go into the into the diehard tropes now. But first, I will say, I think our villains are weak point. We don't have a solid idea of what to do with this villain, and I don't I even though I just put it out there that the studio is asking for what they're doing in Die Hard six, which is some sort of John McClane past thing coming back to haunt him.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:I don't know how to reconcile that, at least here on the spot. We may come up
Jim:with something
T.C.:later, but here in this episode, in this recording, that I think is our weakest point right now is our villain. Mhmm. In a Die Hard movie is the strength of Die Hard movie, the best ones have the best villains. Like, Hans Gruber is one of the all time greatest movie villains, but I think the Strength of Die Hard three is not Jeremy Irons. I think it's the relationship between Sam Jackson and or between, Zeus, not Jesus, Zeus Yeah.
T.C.:And John. But the weakest of the Die Hard movies are typically because of that damn villain. Die Hard
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Die Hard five has the worst villain. It's the worst movie. Die two's villain is not quite clear enough, and that makes it a weaker movie. Yeah. I think Timothy Olyphant's very clearly explained what his motives are and why he's doing it and how he's doing it, and that makes him a stronger villain.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:So I think yeah. Where we are, that's our weakest point right now. I'm not saying we have to solve this right now.
Jim:Well, I still I still really like the idea of them trying to, create a narrative and manipulate a narrative. So one of the things that they'd find out about this ultimate plot under a plot is it's not just the bad guys are in the building. The bad guys are also outside with John because this is this is a staged scenario. Mhmm. And our bad guys, they're going to have set up technology.
Jim:They're gonna have set up cameras and and stuff like that to see their planted assassins planted government assassins take out their planted stooge, henchmen.
T.C.:Oh, I see.
Jim:Yeah. So so that the to they're they're trying to create the narrative
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Of your government is bad. Look what they did. They they
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:Yeah. They did too much, and we're going to release this to the world. We're we're gonna I'm not
T.C.:No. You got it. Yeah. I think that's it. They're creating that angle on it that that's what the bad guys are up to, that they're all there to die to make their cause look good.
T.C.:Like, it's just deep enough that you can still have a whole lot of fun with it. I wouldn't go beyond that. I wouldn't try to scrape into some, like, political conversation anymore than that.
Jim:I I didn't I didn't Yeah. I I don't intend to, like, have them be for from a specific group
T.C.:Right.
Jim:Or or or anything like like that. Mhmm. They they they should remain they should they should just be label less or or a fictional label bad guy. Right? I I I'm not trying to make a political statement.
T.C.:Okay. And I don't think we should. I think that it though there are other movies that are perfectly open to that. Sure. I think with Die Hard, first and foremost, it's fun, and we've painted a picture that would be one fun fun ride of a movie.
T.C.:Yeah. So but some of other chops. So you talked about, the technology, so Mhmm. You kinda delve in that. What are some other diarisms?
T.C.:The the she has to be the underdog the entire time. Mhmm. We have put her in a scenario where she's not trained, so I think we hit those. We already know she's a firecracker. She punches Timothy Olyphant as soon as she sees him.
Jim:Yep. She she's a McLean.
T.C.:You're definitely a McLean. Yeah. Like, there's that there. I think the if we go back to the original, the broken relationship between Holly and John that needs to be resolved by the end is not between her and Matt. It's between her and John.
T.C.:Maybe Yeah. They haven't talked in a while.
Jim:And That that makes sense.
T.C.:Trying to help her. So they're so then even that moment in the first Die Hard where he's bleeding from his feet, he talks to Alan and says, hey. You need to tell my wife this. And and Alan's like, no. No.
T.C.:Don't say it. He's like, you gotta let me hear you gotta let me get this out. Mhmm. Having something in that respect where Lucy's like, I'm sorry. He's like, no.
T.C.:Don't don't we're not having this conversation now. We can have this conversation when you get out. Okay? Whatever whatever our conflict was before, like, when you Okay. When you get out of there today, tonight, we'll go, and then we can have this guy.
T.C.:Like, that that's where the broker relationship is.
Jim:Yeah. I think I kinda like the idea of of it being reversed.
T.C.:Oh, like, he's trying to to her. Yeah. And she's like, no.
Jim:I don't wanna do this. There's no time for this.
T.C.:Yeah. No. No.
Jim:That's great.
T.C.:I like that. Yeah. That he's oh, you know what?
Jim:And then let you know, let's put this aside and dad, you're gonna help me get through this. Yeah. And then we'll
T.C.:And then we'll talk. And and even going so far as to him being in a in a place in his life where he's like, I don't got a lot. I'm not I'm not gonna be around forever. He's feeling like, he's he's conscious of his vulnerability now, his his mortality. Mhmm.
T.C.:And that
Jim:I still I I I still think there's you're right. It's it's it's weak, but I think there is something there of tying the motive of the villains to that flashback to it. Right? Like, especially by by making John reflective at this point, that even more so works that way.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Did does that make sense?
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying. I I think, like, given given a script like this, the and and since we we have to have Bruce Willis in this, we might as well give him something meaty. The stuff that he even gives a shit about anymore is like the Wes Anderson movies where he's playing a character that isn't running a gun in, but someone who is contemplative and thoughtful and cute.
T.C.:Like, I mean, Wes Anderson makes cute movies. But it seems to me that for a guy who really doesn't look like he cares anymore, occasionally, cares. So giving him a John McClain that's essentially gonna be standing there on a walkie talkie for two hours, a, he doesn't have to be there that long, And b, should give him a chance to really dive into the psyche of who would John McClain be.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Who would the McClains be this far along decades later, thirty plus years later?
Jim:Basically, a diehard version of Balboa.
T.C.:Yes. Yes. Of Creed. Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. No. No. The one before Balboa.
T.C.:Yeah. Creed's better. Have you seen Creed?
Jim:I have not seen Creed.
T.C.:It's so good. Okay, that's different conversation. What are some other diehardisms we have?
Jim:We got the guy on the outside. We got
T.C.:Okay. Here's a question. This actually speaks a lot to what we're asking Lucy to do. Mhmm. Did she kill people?
T.C.:Because she's gonna have to. Like, we're asking a lot of the character to to step up to save the day and and kill people.
Jim:I think so. So one of the one of the things, looking specifically to the original DieHard Mhmm. John McClain's kills aren't badass good guy takes out I mean, it is. He's a badass good guy who takes out the bad guys. But almost everyone of the scenarios, it's not he is choosing to kill this person before it has escalated to that point.
Jim:It's Right. He's defending like, he is defending himself every time.
T.C.:It's right. It's a righteous kill. Yeah. Yep.
Jim:I'm right. Because you can even when you look back, like, he took a dude's blood and I I guess it might have been his own, but either way, wrote on his t shirt. Now I've got a machine gun. Ho ho ho ho. That's that's crazy.
Jim:Right?
T.C.:Oh, yes.
Jim:But when you look at the scenario that led to that Mhmm. He he wasn't he wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna get this guy. It was I need to defend myself. He's got a machine gun.
T.C.:And he's a smart ass. So he's
Jim:like Yeah.
T.C.:He even takes a moment to go, he looks at the the Santa Claus hat, and he's like, I just get just to taunt the bad guys.
Jim:Yeah. And I think I think that's that's what you would do with Lucy is almost every one of those scenarios. It's right because because because what makes the original Die Hard so good is that the character is put upon. Mhmm. And that's that's, I think, what you're doing with the character here is, so when when it comes to her having to kill these bad guys, I think, yeah, she's a McLean.
T.C.:Gonna do it.
Jim:She's she's gonna do what needs to be done. And and that and these bad guys are going to take it to the point where that's what needs to be done.
T.C.:I think Mary Elizabeth once said strong enough an actress to take a moment after the first kill to have that Casino Royale moments. If you look at Dan Craig after he has this this stairway fight, he murders the guy, and then he's in the bathroom like, oh god. Oh god. Keep it together. Keep it together.
T.C.:And but having a a a moment of reflection. And, again, then this is kind of a well, a callback later to what she says to John, like, not having this conversation right now. Yeah. Having a moment of, like, freak out to be like, no. There's no there's no time for me to freak out right now.
T.C.:I gotta keep go I can freak out about this later. Emoting that, having having that play out, I think, maybe talking to herself a little bit since John does. Yeah. Particularly that complaining, like, how's the same shit keep happening to the same family? Like, but here here's here's the diherdism for the best diherds that we haven't put in here.
Jim:Uh-huh.
T.C.:What holiday does this take place on?
Jim:Was it not when did it stop being third? The third one's where it stopped being Christmas. Right?
T.C.:It was Christmas, Christmas, Memorial Day or Labor Day or fourth of July.
Jim:It was a hot it was a hot holiday.
T.C.:And then I remember it back in New York. And then it was Memorial Day or Labor Memorial Day for four, and then five is just nothing. Right? I would like to offer, because this will give the studio a release date, Thanksgiving. I mean, going full Christmas, I'm I guess It's
Jim:a little too much?
T.C.:It's a
Jim:Well, unless unless you go. We I think you could you might be able to work it in into the narrative if you go with the angle that the bad guys are in some way tied back to John Mhmm. And they have chosen this date specifically.
T.C.:For make it Christmas Eve, the whoever how he's working.
Jim:Yeah. If you're gonna if if you're going to tie it back to John's storyline, like, ah, you done us wrong back then, and that's why we do this now. Mhmm. Then I think doing it on Christmas right? Like, that that makes it less coincidental and more of we chose this on purpose.
Jim:Mhmm. Oh, I that works. Otherwise, Thanksgiving, like You you you need a reason for people to be in the office building. You don't really have Thanksgiving office parties.
T.C.:Like, well, like, the day before Thanksgiving, like, it's the end of the day. So then the whole movie can take place at night. It's the end of the day. It's, like, the day before thanksgiving. So it's the Wednesday.
T.C.:It's like, alright. I wanna have a great holiday. Like, see you see you after see you next week. I just thought of something here for our villain. Yeah.
T.C.:We don't connect it. We have that past moments. We could connect to the past. Maybe you get a young young John McClain, but I think we I think we would need it in this case. We don't connect it to die hard one.
T.C.:We connect it to die hard two. Because, like, no one would ever see that coming, that this is a this is a callback to the villain from freaking Die Hard two of all things.
Jim:And the the other reason that really, really works is because Die Hard two had the man on the outside for the bad guys. Yeah. You
T.C.:you Yeah. You put it you link it to one of the bad guys in Die Hard two, which, if I remember correctly, the the it's the president from the Marvel Cinematic Universe now. I can't remember the actor's name. Yeah. He's the you get to see his naked butt in the beginning.
T.C.:Mhmm. His choice, weirdly enough. They didn't ask him to do that. So strange. Link it to him because he was a he was a turncoat.
T.C.:He was a traitor. He was an American general who turned.
Jim:Oh, and and all of his men were basically men who who went with him. Right?
T.C.:So this lends itself to that look at how bad the good guys are.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Look at like, tying it back to die hard two Yeah. Would be amazing. Like, that third act turned to, like but the thing is, how do you plant that seed to a new audience? Like, maybe okay. The most I could offer is this having some the prologue, that opening two, three minutes be some sort of
Jim:I that that reveals it. They're like, then then that's in your head the whole time.
T.C.:Or or you you say, oh, the McLean family respond this is tough. I and I'm not happy with this, but I'm just throwing it out there now because they're spitballing.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:The McLean family John McLean did did this thing in the Nakatomi Building, and then he had this thing at the airport. And then he did this thing in New York, and then did this thing in DC.
Jim:I see. You're yeah. I see.
T.C.:Like, undercut it, like, no one cares about DieHard two. Like Yeah. Then just it has to be that would have to be such a careful just a very carefully placed domino to knock that down. Yeah. But I think if you if we could pull that off
Jim:Yeah. That that could be really cool.
T.C.:Yeah. And it satisfies what the studio was asking for, which is give us a something from John's past. Mhmm. I'm I'm constantly trying to well, as much as us are just spitballing great ideas for movies, the whole Yeah. The whole idea behind show
Jim:is to
T.C.:how do we satisfy what they were clearly asking for? Yeah. And I think that would do it. I think that'd be super fun for the fans. It's just all about how do you execute that prologue so it's not a complete it what we don't want is the I am con moment from Star Trek into darkness, which means Jack to anyone.
Jim:In context of the scene?
T.C.:Yeah. That doesn't mean anything.
Jim:It's it's like it's like me. I'm gonna reveal to you right now, TC. TC. I Yeah. Am Yeah.
Jim:Jim.
T.C.:Right. That's your that's your name. I I'm aware of it. Is this supposed to mean something? Oh oh, I it means okay.
T.C.:Right. We don't want that.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:So it's that is a meticulously placed thread to pull for that third act reveal or when Justin Long when Matt figures it out and stuff like that. I wanna see this movie. This this is so much better than Die Hard five. On every level, it would be a cheaper movie to make. Yeah.
T.C.:You the studio would get everything they want out of this, and then the audience would get everything out of this. Because what what
Jim:We have we've we've cheated.
T.C.:But but okay.
Jim:Because you you did just say, with with that initial studio demand, what we've done is we've taken their demand Mhmm. And we've shoot it shoehorned it into what we think would be an awesome Die Hard movie rather because I I think we're cheating. I that notion of a flat like, young John McClain to old John McClain Mhmm. We I I think we cheated here. Mhmm.
Jim:With this new newest newest thing, there's no there's no flashback. Right. It's just a reference to a previous Die Hard movie.
T.C.:But if it's the opening prologue, if we get to see five minutes of young John
Jim:Young John as in, you mean
T.C.:Die hard two.
Jim:Clip clips from die hard two?
T.C.:Damn it. How do you pull this off? Because I think the how do we honor that stupid desire to see two time timelines or two eras in the McLean life?
Jim:I I think I think you have to do, I I think you have to do what what I'd I'd, mentioned where you mentioned a case that seemed put to bed.
T.C.:So put it before Nakatomi? Yep. Okay.
Jim:And But then you can't like it. So then you have a good what I wanted. You have a good five, ten minutes of of this this this young detective. Mhmm. Young Joseph Gordon Levitt running through the streets of New York Yeah.
Jim:Solving a case. And he solves a case. A big old case. Few people die. No big deal.
Jim:Cut to the future where it's it's now John McClain, original, Bruce Willis, John McClain.
T.C.:He Octogenarian, John McClain.
Jim:Solving He's not 80. Solving the the riddle. And I I I still think the only way to shoot shoehorn that in to our Lucy story, which is an amazing story and needs to be done. Everybody in the world listening make this movie happen, is to link a a five, ten minute intro about that Mhmm. To the bad guys in this one at at the end.
T.C.:Alright. Oh, man. That that's the that that is the tough demand that I don't I I agree we could make it happen, but it's just how do you make it happen in the best way possible. Oh. Oh.
T.C.:That and it's it's right.
Jim:These these are all fragile threads. You do something. They are attempting to lure John McClain to the building. Mhmm. They actually want him to be the one stuck inside.
Jim:So you have you have, like, some shots or, like, where he's speeding toward the building because they're like, we got your daughter. Yeah. So you're gonna come here, and we're gonna get you. Mhmm. But then as he's coming in, because Lucy's the plucky hero who had gotten out of their grasp Uh-huh.
Jim:She gives some sort of warning that keeps him from going basically, crossing into the kill zone. Mhmm. And so that's why he remains the man on the outside. It's why he can't get in to help.
T.C.:I guess I guess you're delving into a question of does the studio need to see Bruce Willis do action? Because right now, I have I
Jim:have It's just a little red the the I'm suggesting is a little bit of fast driving.
T.C.:Mhmm.
Jim:Ducking away from at the last second from some machine gun fire Yeah. And then punch punching a couple cops or FBI agents when they won't let him get the job done.
T.C.:And I guess you do have Al has that, like, where he's back in the car up at full speed as they're shooting at him and like, how do you back up? What are doing?
Jim:I'm do it now. Yeah.
T.C.:So there'd be a chance to see Bruce Willis do that. And then at the end, getting the I'm so glad
Jim:I begged. Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. Okay. I think
Jim:I I real it's it's tentative. I don't have the details for how or why. I have a couple ideas on how I would shoot some of the more sensitive, like, well, how does that even work Mhmm. Shots. I don't know if I conveyed them well.
Jim:But I think I think it's possible.
T.C.:Well, the the question remains now is did we miss anything? And this is where I'm gonna throw it out to the listeners. So if you're if you've listened to this episode, you've enjoyed, what we've had to say at this point. It was a lot of, obviously, hypothetical rewriting of history to create a better Die Hard five. I know we started out saying six, but I think
Jim:I think even with what we made Yeah. A Die Hard five can exist.
T.C.:You're right, but we can just forget it exists. I know I've been trying. So the question remains that I'd like to throw out to the listeners, and if you wanna contact us through the comment section or tweeting or whatnot, is did we miss anything? Is there something that we that the studio would have demanded in this Die Hard sequel that we missed? Because we might not be thinking of it right now, and We'd love to engage you in the comments section and if we have any, sort of letters section in subsequent episodes about like seriously, if you give us a good point, like, if you're like, hey, you guys completely forgot that X needs to be part of this and we're gonna go, oh, no.
T.C.:We need to do a follow-up. What
Jim:about the terrible reporter that that needs to be punched?
T.C.:Do we do we this is studio demanding a terrible reporter because there hasn't been one since the second one. So so, for those of you listening who who've enjoyed up to this point, if you think we've missed something, throw it at us because we'd love we may even start actually future episodes with kind of, edits. Like corrections? Corrections. Correction.
T.C.:We the studio demanded x, and we forgot about it, we can kinda whip through those. So I am thinking, I'd love to hear what people have to say. But I Definitely. We we will certainly keep this conversation going once the mics ends, but I think I'm gonna end the episode here.
Jim:I think so.
T.C.:I think we've we've achieved some, pretty great stuff here, Honoring what that studio demand in terms of a Die Hard sequel much better than anything they have planned. I can say that without even seeing what they're doing with the sixth one because because I that's just how I feel. So, with that, I wanna say that was fun, Jim. So Yes. That was that
Jim:was a very good time.
T.C.:I think that we we've absolutely come up a better movie idea. But quick, let's do some social stuff. Yep. Like and subscribe if you're listening, wherever you might be listening to this. A huge shout out to Six Media for giving us this platform.
T.C.:Go check out everything Six Five has been creating. You can follow them through the links below. Jim, where can people find you? Are you on Twitter?
Jim:Yeah. Actually, I think I've tweeted twice.
T.C.:Okay. Well
Jim:I don't even remember what the handle is, so consider it a scavenger hunt.
T.C.:Okay. Okay, Jim Bartholomew. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at t c's big head. And that is all for this episode. So thank you, Jim, for joining me on this fun little experiment here.
Jim:Thank you for having me.
T.C.:Should we do this again? I have a list of 50.
Jim:Yes. We should do this 50 more times.
T.C.:Oh, you you have a list as well. Yes. A growing list. Yes. We'll be doing this for a while.
T.C.:As long as you as long whether you folks are listening or not
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:We're gonna do we're gonna keep doing this. So that is it for this episode. We'll be back again with another challenge to improve the world of cinema. I'm TC.
Jim:I'm Jim.
T.C.:And This is that's the end of the show. Yeah. K. Bye. Bye.